bugPSPP - Bugs: bug #59697, Unintelligible strings in PSPP...

 
 

bug #59697: Unintelligible strings in PSPP 1.4.1

Submitted by:  None
Submitted on:  Wed 16 Dec 2020 12:43:34 AM UTC
 
Category:  Internationalization/Localization Severity:  3 - Ordinary
Status:  None Assigned to:  None
Open/Closed:  Open Release:  None
Effort:  0.00
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Fri 18 Dec 2020 02:14:39 AM UTC, comment #11: 

I translated 3), let others untouched and I will call upon Joseph Saint Pierre after a first proofreading.

I will get back to you if I have other difficulties.

Thank you.

Stéphane Aulery <lkppo>
Thu 17 Dec 2020 07:51:30 AM UTC, comment #10: 

I applied a commit that improves the error messages about valid argument counts.  I haven't worked on the rest yet.

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Thu 17 Dec 2020 05:09:38 AM UTC, comment #9: 

comment #8:

> I need to find a statistician to proofread the translation.
>
> Do you think I can contact Joseph Saint Pierre about this?
>
> He supervised Julie Séguéla who write a French PSPP user guide.


I don't know him.  Usually, in a case like this, I just ask politely.  People usually don't mind the question, even if they don't end up helping.

I remember Julie's guide! That was a nice thing to do.

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Thu 17 Dec 2020 03:47:47 AM UTC, comment #8: 

1) Ok, I let it untranslated for this time.

> > 4) One moreplease : "Assumption" is an other test, a numerique méthod, a process. Should I take is literally or as a name? I can't find the same notion in french. literally is "Supposition".
>
> I see two uses of "assumption" in PSPP.  It looks to me that another word that could be used for these cases is "hypothesis". Is that easier to translate?  These are in the context of T tests, which try two different cases: either the variances of the two sets is the same, or they are different.  I guess that there is literature around T tests in French; maybe it would be a good idea to find out what word is used in that literature.
>
> You are so diligent!  Thanks so much!


Please. I am taking over from another person, but I am not a statistician. So I may be a little more humble than usual ... For the moment I am filling in the gaps but I have to reread the whole translation because I can see that the previous translator made some mistakes and I too am not safe on such a sharp and technical subject. I use internet to compare between English jargon and French math jargon, but it is not always available online or is completely esoteric.

I need to find a statistician to proofread the translation.

Do you think I can contact Joseph Saint Pierre about this?

He supervised Julie Séguéla who write a French PSPP user guide.

Stéphane Aulery <lkppo>
Wed 16 Dec 2020 09:33:04 PM UTC, comment #7: 

comment #6:

> 1) I can't find the word "Codings" on thess tables.


Oh, sorry.  This is a dimension label that is not shown by default.  Here is how it would appear, if it is shown:

             Categorical Variables' Codings
╭─────────────────────────┬────────────────────────────╮
│                         │           Codings          │
│                         ├─────────┬──────────────────┤
│                         │         │ Parameter coding │
│                         │         ├─────┬──────┬─────┤
│                         │Frequency│ (1) │  (2) │ (3) │
├─────────────────────────┼─────────┼─────┼──────┼─────┤
│bcat                1.000│       61│    1│     0│    0│
│                    2.000│      151│    0│     1│    0│
│                    3.000│      121│    0│     0│    1│
│                    4.000│       67│    0│     0│    0│
╰─────────────────────────┴─────────┴─────┴──────┴─────╯

> Should I understand we table about "Character interpretation overview"? if not, I do not translate in doubt.


The goal of the table with "Encoded Text Strings" in the title is to allow the user to pick a reasonable character encoding in the case where PSPP can't guess, so it's good for the user to be able to understand it.  It sounds like I didn't successfully write a caption for that.  Looking at it, it is confusing.  I will try to do better in a later version.

> 2) Ok, if you rephrase, I'm not translating the current version.


OK.

> 3) You change is better. I will translate "%s function does not accept a minimum number of valid arguments" for now.


OK.

> 4) One moreplease : "Assumption" is an other test, a numerique méthod, a process. Should I take is literally or as a name? I can't find the same notion in french. literally is "Supposition".


I see two uses of "assumption" in PSPP.  It looks to me that another word that could be used for these cases is "hypothesis". Is that easier to translate?  These are in the context of T tests, which try two different cases: either the variances of the two sets is the same, or they are different.  I guess that there is literature around T tests in French; maybe it would be a good idea to find out what word is used in that literature.

You are so diligent!  Thanks so much!

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Wed 16 Dec 2020 09:10:45 PM UTC, comment #6: 

1) I can't find the word "Codings" on thess tables.

Should I understand we table about "Character interpretation overview"? if not, I do not translate in doubt.

2) Ok, if you rephrase, I'm not translating the current version.

3) You change is better. I will translate "%s function does not accept a minimum number of valid arguments" for now.

4) One moreplease : "Assumption" is an other test, a numerique méthod, a process. Should I take is literally or as a name? I can't find the same notion in french. literally is "Supposition".

Stéphane Aulery <lkppo>
Wed 16 Dec 2020 06:13:29 PM UTC, comment #5: 

        Usable encodings for `/home/blp/pspp/data/sys/pspp.benpfaff.org/
                     fcccfb659a8308220cbc40145a9fda45.sav'.
╭──┬───────────────────────────────────────╮
│# │               Encodings               │
├──┼───────────────────────────────────────┤
│1 │windows-1252, iso-8859-14, windows-1254│
│2 │iso-8859-2, windows-1250               │
│3 │iso-8859-4                             │
│4 │iso-8859-5                             │
│5 │iso-8859-7, windows-1253               │
│6 │iso-8859-10                            │
│7 │iso-8859-13, windows-1257              │
│8 │iso-8859-16                            │
│9 │macintosh                              │
│10│windows-874                            │
│11│windows-1251                           │
│12│windows-1255                           │
│13│windows-1256                           │
│14│windows-1258                           │
│15│koi8-r, koi8-u                         │
│16│ibm866                                 │
│17│gb18030                                │
│18│ibm850                                 │
╰──┴───────────────────────────────────────╯
Encodings that can successfully read `/home/blp/pspp/data/sys/pspp.benpfaff.
org/fcccfb659a8308220cbc40145a9fda45.sav' (by specifying the encoding name on
the GET command's ENCODING subcommand).  Encodings that yield identical text
are listed together.

  `/home/blp/pspp/data/sys/pspp.benpfaff.org/fcccfb659a8308220cbc40145a9fda45.
                           sav' Encoded Text Strings
╭────────────────────┬───────────────────────────╮
│Purpose           # │            Text           │
├────────────────────┼───────────────────────────┤
│Variable 25       1 │EXERCÍCI                   │
│                  2 │EXERCÍCI                   │
│                  3 │EXERCÍCI                   │
│                  4 │EXERCЭCI                   │
│                  5 │EXERCΝCI                   │
│                  6 │EXERCÍCI                   │
│                  7 │EXERCĶCI                   │
│                  8 │EXERCÍCI                   │
│                  9 │EXERCÕCI                   │
│                  10│EXERCอCI                   │
│                  11│EXERCНCI                   │
│                  12│EXERCֽCI                    │
│                  13│EXERCحCI                   │
│                  14│EXERCÍCI                   │
│                  15│EXERCмCI                   │
│                  16│EXERC═CI                   │
│                  17│EXERC虲I                   │
│                  18│EXERC═CI                   │
...
├────────────────────┼───────────────────────────┤
│Value Label 12    1 │episódico                  │
│                  2 │episódico                  │
│                  3 │episķdico                  │
│                  4 │episѓdico                  │
│                  5 │episσdico                  │
│                  6 │episódico                  │
│                  7 │episódico                  │
│                  8 │episódico                  │
│                  9 │episÛdico                  │
│                  10│epis๓dico                  │
│                  11│episуdico                  │
│                  12│episףdico                  │
│                  13│episَdico                   │
│                  14│episódico                  │
│                  15│episСdico                  │
│                  16│episєdico                  │
│                  17│epis骴ico                  │
│                  18│epis¾dico                  │
╰────────────────────┴───────────────────────────╯
Text strings in the file dictionary that the previously listed encodings
interpret differently, along with the interpretations.

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Wed 16 Dec 2020 06:12:55 PM UTC, comment #4: 

comment #3:

> commentaire #1 :
> > Thanks for bringing this up.
> >
> > The first two are ones that users are meant to understand:
> >
> > - "Text strings in the file dictionary that the previously listed encodings interpret differently, along with the interpretations."
> >
> > This is about .sav files.  These files contain "dictionaries" of meta-data.  The dictionaries have strings but they don't say what encoding (e.g. ASCII, windows-1252, UTF-8) those strings are in.  The table below this lists the strings that would have appear differently depending on the encoding that was chosen, and how they would appear in each of those encodings.
>
> I don't see where the verb is actually. The construction of the sentence is weird. Do you mean:
>
> "Text strings of this dictionnary can be interpreted differently depending on the encoding displayed previously."
>
> Is the user prompted for a choice or it's only a notice?


It's a caption for a table that lists the text strings.  I'll add a separate comment with an example.

> > - "Codings" (not enough context)
> >
> > I think this shows how a value of a variable is represented as part of the output for the logistic regression.  I'll separately add an output example to give context.
>
> The previous reference text was "Encodings". I could think it was about characters encodings, but now I doubt it.


This is not about character encoding.  My understanding of this case is incomplete, so it's difficult for me to explain it fully.

> >
> > The following aren't messages that users need to understand.  They are reported if a .sav file is corrupt in a particular way.  I am not sure whether it makes sense to translate them, because only a PSPP developer can do anything about it.  Do you have an opinion?
> >
> > - "Value label variable index %d refers to long string continuation."
> >
> > - "Weight variable index %d refers to long string continuation.  Treating file as unweighted."
>
> Indeed, I think that, if the audience is very small, and the subject very specialized, and that this can have consequences on the correction of an error, then there are many good reasons not to translate. In this case, it is worth asking the question of removing it from the strings to be translated. Anyway I don't understand "long string continuation"? Is this talking about a series of long integers represented in strings?


This is about an internal representation in the .sav file format.  It can't directly represent strings longer than 8 bytes, so it represents them indirectly using an 8-byte string followed by some number of continuations of 8 bytes each.  Users are probably unaware of this.

I think that I will change PSPP to avoid translating these.  The only part that is relevant to the user is "Treating file as unweighted."

> >
> > This one I can explain:
> >
> > - "%s function does not accept a minimum valid argument count."
> >
> > PSPP supports the concept of a "missing value": a placeholder for a value whose true value is unknown.  PSPP has a bunch of mathematical functions like SUM, MEAN, STDDEV, and so on. For some of them, you can add an option that specifies how many of the arguments have to be valid (that is, not missing values) before the result of the function itself is non-missing.  This message says that the function in question doesn't accept such an option, even though the user tried to specify one.
>
> Ok, that could be rephrased like that?
>
> %s function does not accept an argument by default.
>
> %s function does not accept substitution arguments.
>
> %s function does not accept placeholder arguments.


None of those is quite right.  Maybe "minimum number of valid arguments" instead of "minimum valid argument count"?

Another way to look at it is that the way this is specified is through a numerical suffix, e.g. "MEAN.5" for a minimum of 5 valid arguments.  The message could be more specific, like: "%s function does not accept .%d suffix."

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Wed 16 Dec 2020 01:46:19 PM UTC, comment #3: 

commentaire #1 :

> Thanks for bringing this up.
>
> The first two are ones that users are meant to understand:
>
> - "Text strings in the file dictionary that the previously listed encodings interpret differently, along with the interpretations."
>
> This is about .sav files.  These files contain "dictionaries" of meta-data.  The dictionaries have strings but they don't say what encoding (e.g. ASCII, windows-1252, UTF-8) those strings are in.  The table below this lists the strings that would have appear differently depending on the encoding that was chosen, and how they would appear in each of those encodings.


I don't see where the verb is actually. The construction of the sentence is weird. Do you mean:

"Text strings of this dictionnary can be interpreted differently depending on the encoding displayed previously."

Is the user prompted for a choice or it's only a notice?

>
> - "Codings" (not enough context)
>
> I think this shows how a value of a variable is represented as part of the output for the logistic regression.  I'll separately add an output example to give context.


The previous reference text was "Encodings". I could think it was about characters encodings, but now I doubt it.

>
> The following aren't messages that users need to understand.  They are reported if a .sav file is corrupt in a particular way.  I am not sure whether it makes sense to translate them, because only a PSPP developer can do anything about it.  Do you have an opinion?
>
> - "Value label variable index %d refers to long string continuation."
>
> - "Weight variable index %d refers to long string continuation.  Treating file as unweighted."


Indeed, I think that, if the audience is very small, and the subject very specialized, and that this can have consequences on the correction of an error, then there are many good reasons not to translate. In this case, it is worth asking the question of removing it from the strings to be translated. Anyway I don't understand "long string continuation"? Is this talking about a series of long integers represented in strings?

>
> This one I can explain:
>
> - "%s function does not accept a minimum valid argument count."
>
> PSPP supports the concept of a "missing value": a placeholder for a value whose true value is unknown.  PSPP has a bunch of mathematical functions like SUM, MEAN, STDDEV, and so on. For some of them, you can add an option that specifies how many of the arguments have to be valid (that is, not missing values) before the result of the function itself is non-missing.  This message says that the function in question doesn't accept such an option, even though the user tried to specify one.


Ok, that could be rephrased like that?

%s function does not accept an argument by default.

%s function does not accept substitution arguments.

%s function does not accept placeholder arguments.

Stéphane Aulery <lkppo>
Wed 16 Dec 2020 03:18:16 AM UTC, comment #2: 

Example output that include "Coding":

  Dependent Variable Encoding
╭──────────────┬──────────────╮
│Original Value│Internal Value│
├──────────────┼──────────────┤
│4.000         │          .000│
│9.000         │         1.000│
╰──────────────┴──────────────╯

      Case Processing Summary
╭────────────────────┬───┬───────╮
│Unweighted Cases    │ N │Percent│
├────────────────────┼───┼───────┤
│Included in Analysis│400│ 100.0%│
│Missing Cases       │  0│    .0%│
│Total               │400│ 100.0%│
╰────────────────────┴───┴───────╯

note: Estimation terminated at iteration number 4 because parameter estimates
changed by less than 0.001

                          Model Summary
╭────┬─────────────────┬────────────────────┬───────────────────╮
│Step│-2 Log likelihood│Cox & Snell R Square│Nagelkerke R Square│
├────┼─────────────────┼────────────────────┼───────────────────┤
│1   │          458.517│                .098│               .138│
╰────┴─────────────────┴────────────────────┴───────────────────╯

             Categorical Variables' Codings
╭─────────────────────────┬─────────┬──────────────────╮
│                         │         │ Parameter coding │
│                         │         ├─────┬──────┬─────┤
│                         │Frequency│ (1) │  (2) │ (3) │
├─────────────────────────┼─────────┼─────┼──────┼─────┤
│bcat                1.000│       61│    1│     0│    0│
│                    2.000│      151│    0│     1│    0│
│                    3.000│      121│    0│     0│    1│
│                    4.000│       67│    0│     0│    0│
╰─────────────────────────┴─────────┴─────┴──────┴─────╯

                    Classification Table
╭──────────────────────────┬──────────────────────────────╮
│                          │           Predicted          │
│                          ├───────────┬──────────────────┤
│                          │     y     │                  │
│                          ├─────┬─────┤                  │
│       Observed           │4.000│9.000│Percentage Correct│
├──────────────────────────┼─────┼─────┼──────────────────┤
│Step 1 y      4.000       │  254│   19│             93.0%│
│              9.000       │   97│   30│             23.6%│
│       Overall Percentage │     │     │             71.0%│
╰──────────────────────────┴─────┴─────┴──────────────────╯

              Variables in the Equation
╭───────────────┬──────┬─────┬──────┬──┬────┬──────╮
│               │   B  │ S.E.│ Wald │df│Sig.│Exp(B)│
├───────────────┼──────┼─────┼──────┼──┼────┼──────┤
│Step 1 b1      │  .002│ .001│ 4.284│ 1│.038│ 1.002│
│       b2      │  .804│ .332│ 5.872│ 1│.015│ 2.235│
│       bcat    │      │     │20.895│ 3│.000│      │
│       bcat(1) │ 1.551│ .418│13.788│ 1│.000│ 4.718│
│       bcat(2) │  .876│ .367│ 5.706│ 1│.017│ 2.401│
│       bcat(3) │  .211│ .393│  .289│ 1│.591│ 1.235│
│       Constant│-5.541│1.138│23.709│ 1│.000│  .004│
╰───────────────┴──────┴─────┴──────┴──┴────┴──────╯

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Wed 16 Dec 2020 03:16:46 AM UTC, comment #1: 

Thanks for bringing this up.

The first two are ones that users are meant to understand:

- "Text strings in the file dictionary that the previously listed encodings interpret differently, along with the interpretations."

This is about .sav files.  These files contain "dictionaries" of meta-data.  The dictionaries have strings but they don't say what encoding (e.g. ASCII, windows-1252, UTF-8) those strings are in.  The table below this lists the strings that would have appear differently depending on the encoding that was chosen, and how they would appear in each of those encodings.

- "Codings" (not enough context)

I think this shows how a value of a variable is represented as part of the output for the logistic regression.  I'll separately add an output example to give context.

The following aren't messages that users need to understand.  They are reported if a .sav file is corrupt in a particular way.  I am not sure whether it makes sense to translate them, because only a PSPP developer can do anything about it.  Do you have an opinion?

- "Value label variable index %d refers to long string continuation."

- "Weight variable index %d refers to long string continuation.  Treating file as unweighted."

This one I can explain:

- "%s function does not accept a minimum valid argument count."

PSPP supports the concept of a "missing value": a placeholder for a value whose true value is unknown.  PSPP has a bunch of mathematical functions like SUM, MEAN, STDDEV, and so on. For some of them, you can add an option that specifies how many of the arguments have to be valid (that is, not missing values) before the result of the function itself is non-missing.  This message says that the function in question doesn't accept such an option, even though the user tried to specify one.

Ben Pfaff <blp>
Project Administrator
Wed 16 Dec 2020 12:43:34 AM UTC, original submission:  

Hello,

I can't translate in French these strings because I don't understand them. They are ambiguous or maybe false.

Can you reformulate them in the reference version please?

- "Text strings in the file dictionary that the previously listed encodings interpret differently, along with the interpretations."

- "Codings" (not enough context)

- "Value label variable index %d refers to long string continuation."

- "Weight variable index %d refers to long string continuation.  Treating file as unweighted." (What is a "long string continuation"?)

- "%s function does not accept a minimum valid argument count."

Regards,

Stéphane Aulery

Anonymous

 

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