bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #42157, Tone letters issue

 
 

bug #42157: Tone letters issue

Submitted by:  Hsin-tung He <alphabet>
Submitted on:  Mon 21 Apr 2014 04:06:39 PM UTC  
 
Category: character rangeSeverity: 3 - Normal
Item Group: character substitution issueStatus: Fix posted
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: OpenRelease: 2012-05-03

Add a New Comment (Rich MarkupRich Markup):
   

You are not logged in

Please log in, so followups can be emailed to you.

 

(Jump to the original submission Jump to the original submission)

Wed 16 Jul 2014 06:47:04 AM UTC, comment #14:

Committed.
Normal and oblique faces only.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 13 Jul 2014 09:58:57 PM UTC, comment #13:

Hsing-yen,

Of course we are eager to support the community using IPA, so long as it can be done within the context of Unicode and other standards. In fact, most of that table has been supported for a long time.

I have now implemented the compounds for tone contours. You'll find a build on the usual site (this is not reflected in the SVN -- I had a nasty disk crash and haven't sorted out the SVN yet.)

  • One question: the form of the last letter for rising-falling tone in Figure 7-7 of Ch 7 of the Unicode Standard is different from the one in the IPA sheet. What is the right form?

Attached find a test page meant to approximate the characters shown in the IPA page.

(file #31709, file #31710)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 12 Jul 2014 06:58:31 PM UTC, comment #12:

I also think if GNU FreeFont support more phonetic feature as official IPA chart shown on, such as contour tones, then more user will choose it to present transcriptions in IPA.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 19 Jun 2014 10:28:48 AM UTC, comment #11:

I think the purpose of this chart is to present how to use IPA standardized, including tone letters. And the International Phonetic Assossiation also recommend to use tone letter and its combinations to present languages' tone after the Kiel Convention of 1989. So many professional documents and some phonetic websites choose to use tone letters and its ligature under the influence of the assossation, then more and more computer fonts started to support contour tones with tone letter's combinations.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Wed 18 Jun 2014 06:28:18 AM UTC, comment #10:

Thanks, Hsing-yen!

That's a really nice chart! I'll see how much of it FreeFont can do.

I'm still not sure how this helps with these combinations you seem to be referring to.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 18 Jun 2014 05:29:39 AM UTC, comment #9:

I found <a href="http://www.langsci.ucl.ac.uk/ipa/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf">official IPA chart</a> shown contour tones as ligatures.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 27 Apr 2014 10:46:10 PM UTC, comment #8:

Hi Emmanuel,

As I explained, I implemented everything I saw in the Unicode book (Just fig. 7.7). Did I miss something?

We don't simply copy behavior of other fonts. They can be useful as a guide or check, but they do not constitute a standard.

So the question remains: is there a standard for this behavior? Where can we see that?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 27 Apr 2014 06:54:13 PM UTC, comment #7:

The Unicode Standard, Chapter 7, tells about ligating behavior of tone bars. The examples mentioned are illustrative of the principle, ligature are not restricted to that particular combinations.

Emmanuel Vallois <emmanuel_vallois>
Tue 22 Apr 2014 07:55:09 PM UTC, comment #6:

Hi guys,

Is there any chance of some official documentation? A standard of any sort?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 22 Apr 2014 05:37:55 AM UTC, comment #5:

Sorry for my oversight, I sent a wrong example in comment #4.

Hsin-tung He <alphabet>
Tue 22 Apr 2014 05:30:39 AM UTC, comment #4:

I found linked tone bars is widely used to descript some tones which have a different internal pattern of rising and falling pitch, not only for some tone languages, but also for non-tone languages. Even if non-tone languages may have some tones in spoken language.

Here are some examplps I found in Wikipedia:
妈妈骂马的麻吗?/媽媽罵馬的麻嗎?
Pinyin: māma mà mǎ de má ma?
IPA /má ma mâ ma᷉ tə mǎ ma/
English: "Is mom scolding the horse's hemp?"

[u ꜛˈvẽtu ˈnɔɾtɯ kumɯˈso ɐ suˈpɾaɾ kõ ˈmũitɐ ˩˧fuɾiɐ | mɐʃ ꜛˈku̯ɐ̃tu maiʃ su˩˧pɾavɐ | maiz ꜛu viɐꜜˈʒɐ̃tɯ si ɐkõʃꜜˈɡava suɐ ˧˩kapɐ | ɐˈtɛ ꜛkiu ˈvẽtu ˈnɔɾtɯ ˧˩d̥z̥ʃtiu ǁ]
O vento norte começou a soprar com muita fúria, mas quanto mais soprava, mais o viajante se aconchegava à sua capa, até que o vento norte desistiu.

By the way, not only DejaVu fonts, SIL fonts and some Microsoft fonts, but also Linux Libertine support linked tone bars very well.

Hsin-tung He <alphabet>
Tue 22 Apr 2014 03:19:01 AM UTC, comment #3:

For a full implementation of linked tone bars, that is which works for any arbitrary succession of tone bars, see DejaVu fonts, or SIL fonts with IPA support (Charis SIL, Doulos SIL, Andika, …); or even (to a certain extent) modern versions of Microsoft fonts as seen in the attached screenshot.
Note that left-stem tone bars (U+A712 - U+A716) work the same and are implemented in SIL fonts (but not in DejaVu).

To test, here are the combinations visible in the screenshot, which I think are the most frequent, first with right stem and then with left stem:
˥˧ ˦˨ ˧˩ ˥˩ ꜒꜔ ꜓꜕ ꜔꜖ ꜒꜖
˩˧ ˨˦ ˧˥ ˩˩˧ ꜖꜔ ꜕꜓ ꜔꜒ ꜖꜖꜔
˧˥˦ ˦˩˨ ˨˩˧ ꜔꜒꜓ ꜓꜖꜕ ꜕꜖꜔

Some random combinations, work with DejaVu (left-stem only) and SIL fonts:
˥˦˨˧˩˥ ꜒꜓꜕꜔꜖꜒
˩˥˧˨˦˥ ꜖꜒꜔꜕꜓꜒

Emmanuel Vallois <emmanuel_vallois>
Mon 21 Apr 2014 06:15:37 PM UTC, comment #2:

This has been resolved in the latest version control commit
in Serif, Sans and Mono faces.

Thanks for pointing this out! Let us know what you think!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 21 Apr 2014 05:24:35 PM UTC, comment #1:

Hello, Hsin-tung,

This is the first I've heard of this.

Documentation in the Unicode Book Ch 7, Fig. 7-7.

I'll look at it right away.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 21 Apr 2014 04:06:39 PM UTC, original submission:

I found some fonts in Microsoft Windows (such Arial, Cambria, etc) can combined each two or three IPA's tone letters (U+02E5–U+02E9) in sequence for contour tones, but FreeSans and FreeSerif cannot, please fix it.

Hsin-tung He <alphabet>

 

(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

Attach File(s):
   
   
Comment:
   

Attached Files
file #31709:  IPA-chart.html added by Stevan_White (12kB - text/html)
file #31710:  IPA-chart.pdf added by Stevan_White (167kB - application/force-download)

 

Depends on the following items: None found

Items that depend on this one: None found

 

Carbon-Copy List
  • -unavailable- added by hammerandsickle (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by emmanuel_vallois (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by Stevan_White (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by alphabet (Submitted the item)
  •  

    Do you think this task is very important?
    If so, you can click here to add your encouragement to it.
    This task has 0 encouragements so far.

    Only logged-in users can vote.

     

    Please enter the title of George Orwell's famous dystopian book (it's a date):

     

     

    Follow 11 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Wed 16 Jul 2014 06:47:04 AM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusNeed info=>Fix posted
    Sun 13 Jul 2014 09:58:57 PM UTCStevan_WhiteAttached File-=>Added IPA-chart.html, #31709
      Attached File-=>Added IPA-chart.pdf, #31710
    Sun 27 Apr 2014 10:46:10 PM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusFix posted=>Need info
    Mon 21 Apr 2014 06:15:37 PM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusNeed info=>Fix posted
      SummaryTone letters\' issue=>Tone letters issue
    Mon 21 Apr 2014 05:24:35 PM UTCStevan_WhiteCategoryoverall font problem=>character range
      Item Groupbulk text appearance poor=>character substitution issue
      StatusNone=>Need info
      Assigned toNone=>Stevan_White
    Mon 21 Apr 2014 04:06:39 PM UTCalphabetAttached File-=>Added Tone letters’ issue.png, #31230

    Back to the top


    Powered by Savane 3.1-cleanup