bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #42157, Tone letters issue


bug #42157: Tone letters issue

Submitted by:  Hsin-tung He <alphabet>
Submitted on:  Mon 21 Apr 2014 04:06:39 PM UTC  
Category:  character range Severity:  3 - Normal
Item Group:  character substitution issue Status:  Proceeding
Privacy:  Public Assigned to:  Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed:  Open Release:  2012-05-03

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Sun 13 Sep 2015 02:17:37 PM UTC, comment #24:

In my opinion, using ligature feature to generate contour tone aren’t badly way, but this way must costs so many time and vigours, and may cause larger file size, using contextual forms will be easier. This idea was inspired by Georg Duffner’s website. One day I browsing this page in Firefox for mobile, I found the ff ligature on the page seems not generated by standard ligature feature when I select the text, I think his typeface is using contextual forms instead, and finally I got proved by FontForge. So I made this idea, and I suggested you should removing exsisted ligatures for tone bars, redesignd via contextual forms.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 11 Sep 2015 11:34:34 AM UTC, comment #23:


I have an idea for generating contour tone, you don’t necessary to put so many ligatures, instead you can use contextual sensetive features (“init”, “medi”, “fina”, etc.) to impelement it.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 15 Mar 2015 12:03:08 PM UTC, comment #22:

Thanks, Hsing-yen! I can work with these.

(However, it doesn't look very easy. I'll have to think about it.)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 14 Mar 2015 05:28:22 PM UTC, comment #21:

I also made a TXT file which you can look at, including some combinations that is used for rendering contour tones for general usage, you can implementing for them firstly.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Wed 11 Mar 2015 11:46:03 AM UTC, comment #20:


I found some materials that you can see the usage of contour tones, I think they can be seen as reference,

*Yuen Ren Chao, A Grammar of Spoken Chinese, Page 26-28
*Phil Rose, Transcribing Tone – A likelihood-based quantitative evaluation of Chao’s tone letters
*Ryan K. Shosted, Di Wu, Marissa Goldrich, Computational modeling of tone in Iu Mien: An inductive approach for field linguists
*Peter Constable, SIL International, Presentation of tone contours encoded as UCS tone letter sequences
*Fukui Rei, TIPA: A System for Processing Phonetic Symbols in LaTeX
*Fukui Rei, TIPA Manual, A.2.1 Tone letters

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon 09 Mar 2015 07:54:07 AM UTC, comment #19:


What exactly is "poor" about the implementation?

We cannot implement more tones until somebody provides a standards document of some kind. Or some document of some kind.


Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 09 Mar 2015 05:02:55 AM UTC, comment #18:

Hi steve,

I tried the test you have uploaded for a long time, and I am glad with it. But I think this implemention is poor. I also copied some contour tones from some Chinese dialects related articles at Wikipedia, found only a few ligature appeared. These compounds should be expand.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 08 Mar 2015 08:45:51 PM UTC, comment #17:

Hi, Hsing-yen,

Your PDF file does not contain any FreeFont.

What is your point? Did you try the test I uploaded?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 08 Mar 2015 07:14:54 AM UTC, comment #16:

Hi steve,

I copied some of contour tones to Notepad from this file to test, but when I choose FreeSans and FreeSerif, they are not coming:


Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon 16 Feb 2015 04:22:06 PM UTC, comment #15:

Now I am using 8 Feb. 2015 release to test, but it still have problem. For example, Standard Mandarin tone 3 usually transcript as ˨˩ (21) or ˨˩˦ (214) with tone letter, but they are not combine in FreeSerif and FreeSans.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Wed 16 Jul 2014 06:47:04 AM UTC, comment #14:

Normal and oblique faces only.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 13 Jul 2014 09:58:57 PM UTC, comment #13:


Of course we are eager to support the community using IPA, so long as it can be done within the context of Unicode and other standards. In fact, most of that table has been supported for a long time.

I have now implemented the compounds for tone contours. You'll find a build on the usual site (this is not reflected in the SVN -- I had a nasty disk crash and haven't sorted out the SVN yet.)

  • One question: the form of the last letter for rising-falling tone in Figure 7-7 of Ch 7 of the Unicode Standard is different from the one in the IPA sheet. What is the right form?

Attached find a test page meant to approximate the characters shown in the IPA page.

(file #31709, file #31710)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 12 Jul 2014 06:58:31 PM UTC, comment #12:

I also think if GNU FreeFont support more phonetic feature as official IPA chart shown on, such as contour tones, then more user will choose it to present transcriptions in IPA.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 19 Jun 2014 10:28:48 AM UTC, comment #11:

I think the purpose of this chart is to present how to use IPA standardized, including tone letters. And the International Phonetic Assossiation also recommend to use tone letter and its combinations to present languages' tone after the Kiel Convention of 1989. So many professional documents and some phonetic websites choose to use tone letters and its ligature under the influence of the assossation, then more and more computer fonts started to support contour tones with tone letter's combinations.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Wed 18 Jun 2014 06:28:18 AM UTC, comment #10:

Thanks, Hsing-yen!

That's a really nice chart! I'll see how much of it FreeFont can do.

I'm still not sure how this helps with these combinations you seem to be referring to.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 18 Jun 2014 05:29:39 AM UTC, comment #9:

I found <a href="http://www.langsci.ucl.ac.uk/ipa/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf">official IPA chart</a> shown contour tones as ligatures.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 27 Apr 2014 10:46:10 PM UTC, comment #8:

Hi Emmanuel,

As I explained, I implemented everything I saw in the Unicode book (Just fig. 7.7). Did I miss something?

We don't simply copy behavior of other fonts. They can be useful as a guide or check, but they do not constitute a standard.

So the question remains: is there a standard for this behavior? Where can we see that?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 27 Apr 2014 06:54:13 PM UTC, comment #7:

The Unicode Standard, Chapter 7, tells about ligating behavior of tone bars. The examples mentioned are illustrative of the principle, ligature are not restricted to that particular combinations.

Emmanuel Vallois <emmanuel_vallois>
Tue 22 Apr 2014 07:55:09 PM UTC, comment #6:

Hi guys,

Is there any chance of some official documentation? A standard of any sort?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 22 Apr 2014 05:37:55 AM UTC, comment #5:

Sorry for my oversight, I sent a wrong example in comment #4.

Hsin-tung He <alphabet>
Tue 22 Apr 2014 05:30:39 AM UTC, comment #4:

I found linked tone bars is widely used to descript some tones which have a different internal pattern of rising and falling pitch, not only for some tone languages, but also for non-tone languages. Even if non-tone languages may have some tones in spoken language.

Here are some examplps I found in Wikipedia:
Pinyin: māma mà mǎ de má ma?
IPA /má ma mâ ma᷉ tə mǎ ma/
English: "Is mom scolding the horse's hemp?"

[u ꜛˈvẽtu ˈnɔɾtɯ kumɯˈso ɐ suˈpɾaɾ kõ ˈmũitɐ ˩˧fuɾiɐ | mɐʃ ꜛˈku̯ɐ̃tu maiʃ su˩˧pɾavɐ | maiz ꜛu viɐꜜˈʒɐ̃tɯ si ɐkõʃꜜˈɡava suɐ ˧˩kapɐ | ɐˈtɛ ꜛkiu ˈvẽtu ˈnɔɾtɯ ˧˩d̥z̥ʃtiu ǁ]
O vento norte começou a soprar com muita fúria, mas quanto mais soprava, mais o viajante se aconchegava à sua capa, até que o vento norte desistiu.

By the way, not only DejaVu fonts, SIL fonts and some Microsoft fonts, but also Linux Libertine support linked tone bars very well.

Hsin-tung He <alphabet>
Tue 22 Apr 2014 03:19:01 AM UTC, comment #3:

For a full implementation of linked tone bars, that is which works for any arbitrary succession of tone bars, see DejaVu fonts, or SIL fonts with IPA support (Charis SIL, Doulos SIL, Andika, …); or even (to a certain extent) modern versions of Microsoft fonts as seen in the attached screenshot.
Note that left-stem tone bars (U+A712 - U+A716) work the same and are implemented in SIL fonts (but not in DejaVu).

To test, here are the combinations visible in the screenshot, which I think are the most frequent, first with right stem and then with left stem:
˥˧ ˦˨ ˧˩ ˥˩ ꜒꜔ ꜓꜕ ꜔꜖ ꜒꜖
˩˧ ˨˦ ˧˥ ˩˩˧ ꜖꜔ ꜕꜓ ꜔꜒ ꜖꜖꜔
˧˥˦ ˦˩˨ ˨˩˧ ꜔꜒꜓ ꜓꜖꜕ ꜕꜖꜔

Some random combinations, work with DejaVu (left-stem only) and SIL fonts:
˥˦˨˧˩˥ ꜒꜓꜕꜔꜖꜒
˩˥˧˨˦˥ ꜖꜒꜔꜕꜓꜒

Emmanuel Vallois <emmanuel_vallois>
Mon 21 Apr 2014 06:15:37 PM UTC, comment #2:

This has been resolved in the latest version control commit
in Serif, Sans and Mono faces.

Thanks for pointing this out! Let us know what you think!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 21 Apr 2014 05:24:35 PM UTC, comment #1:

Hello, Hsin-tung,

This is the first I've heard of this.

Documentation in the Unicode Book Ch 7, Fig. 7-7.

I'll look at it right away.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 21 Apr 2014 04:06:39 PM UTC, original submission:

I found some fonts in Microsoft Windows (such Arial, Cambria, etc) can combined each two or three IPA's tone letters (U+02E5–U+02E9) in sequence for contour tones, but FreeSans and FreeSerif cannot, please fix it.

Hsin-tung He <alphabet>


(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

Attach Files:

Attached Files
file #33292:  Contour tone essential.txt added by hammerandsickle (2KiB - text/plain - I made a text file which you can copy some of combinations for test. I think all of them are essential for purpose of indicating tone contours.)
file #33109:  Test for contour tone.zip added by hammerandsickle (366KiB - application/zip - I copied some combinations from here to test, but some of them still have problem.)
file #31709:  IPA-chart.html added by Stevan_White (12KiB - text/html)
file #31710:  IPA-chart.pdf added by Stevan_White (167KiB - application/force-download)


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    Follow 16 latest changes.

    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    Fri 06 Nov 2015 01:35:44 PM UTC hammerandsickle Attached File- => Added Illustration_of_contextual_substitution_based_contour_tone.png, #35398
    Sun 07 Jun 2015 02:13:34 AM UTC hammerandsickle Attached File- => Added Test_for_contour_tones.htm, #34170
    Sun 15 Mar 2015 12:03:08 PM UTC Stevan_White StatusFix posted => Proceeding
    Sun 08 Mar 2015 04:38:05 PM UTC hammerandsickle Attached File- => Added Contour tone essential.txt, #33292
    Tue 17 Feb 2015 11:15:57 AM UTC hammerandsickle Attached File- => Added Test for contour tone.zip, #33109
    Wed 16 Jul 2014 06:47:04 AM UTC Stevan_White StatusNeed info => Fix posted
    Sun 13 Jul 2014 09:58:57 PM UTC Stevan_White Attached File- => Added IPA-chart.html, #31709
        Attached File- => Added IPA-chart.pdf, #31710
    Sun 27 Apr 2014 10:46:10 PM UTC Stevan_White StatusFix posted => Need info
    Mon 21 Apr 2014 06:15:37 PM UTC Stevan_White StatusNeed info => Fix posted
        SummaryTone letters\' issue => Tone letters issue
    Mon 21 Apr 2014 05:24:35 PM UTC Stevan_White Categoryoverall font problem => character range
        Item Groupbulk text appearance poor => character substitution issue
        StatusNone => Need info
        Assigned toNone => Stevan_White
    Mon 21 Apr 2014 04:06:39 PM UTC alphabet Attached File- => Added Tone letters’ issue.png, #31230

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