bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #39519, Latin Kerning


bug #39519: Latin Kerning

Submitted by:  Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Submitted on:  Thu Jul 18 20:48:13 2013  
Category: font metricsSeverity: 3 - Normal
Item Group: letter positioning poorStatus: Fix posted
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: OpenRelease: 2012-05-03

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Wed Nov 18 08:27:49 2015, comment #22:

Well, I just found these letters with some IPA letters as ɪ, ɨ sightly have entry for kerning.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri Oct 23 19:14:59 2015, comment #21:

The glyph j is kerned. In what word do you see a problem?
ɖ, ɳ, ʠ, ʄ, ʅ, ʆ and ʐ seem not to be used in a written language.
ɗ and ɲ are used in African languages, and we will fix that.
The use of ʃ isn't clear to me.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri Oct 23 16:21:02 2015, comment #20:

Hi Hsing-Yen,

This isn't enough information. It will be helpul to know which languages these are used in. Some sample words would be good.

I see ɗ is used to write some African languages, but ɖ is just a phonetic symbol.

We kern for ease of reading and aesthetics of bulk text.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri Oct 16 06:48:11 2015, comment #19:

I found j, ɖ, ɗ, ɲ, ɳ, ʠ, ʃ, ʄ, ʅ, ʆ, ʐ should adjusted the kerning for several letters from IPA Extensions and Phonetic Extensions range.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon Sep 21 15:31:02 2015, comment #18:

I think some combinations as ſꝛ should be closer, because they can appearing in Latin siglum.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu Sep 17 09:20:10 2015, comment #17:

I found ɣ should adjust the kerning, as in Dzayer tamaneɣt (“Algiers” in Berber).

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Tue Sep 15 10:15:42 2015, comment #16:

Of course we have no way of knowing what this combination should look like, without something like:
1) an image of pre-computer typography depicting it
2) a textual standard that describes its appearance.
(As usual, comparisons with modern computer fonts are immaterial.)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue Sep 15 07:58:59 2015, comment #15:


I found Wikipedia refered Central !Kung have a word stand for “water”, which transcripted [ǃ̬˞ ˡú] in IPA, in this case the alveolar click letter is adding a rhotic diacritic. In FreeSans ǃ˞ looks tightly, but in FreeSerif they looks seperate.


Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Tue Sep 15 06:46:47 2015, comment #14:


about retroflex click: sorry I don't know what you're talking about. Please provide us some text to work with.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue Sep 15 01:44:28 2015, comment #13:

Hi Steve,

I remembered that I received warning about a conflict between kerning table and GPOS when I opening FreeSerif.sfd with FontForge one day, I think maybe this conflict cause the problem.

I have tested retroflex click transcription in both FreeSans and FreeSerif, they works with FreeSans but not in FreeSerif, so you can just fixing in FreeSerif.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon Sep 14 18:44:10 2015, comment #12:


the Czech letters had problems: some faces had table entries for them, others not -- and rather mysteriously. Thanks for pointing this out.

I have no idea what you mean about the retroflex click. I will need some text with this character in it.

Thanks again!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon Sep 14 07:11:15 2015, comment #11:

I think ďé, ťé (used to reperent their abeceda) as well as ľ should also adjusted for kerning in Czech and Slovak.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon Sep 14 03:55:08 2015, comment #10:

Hi Steve,

I think ǃ˞ (Retroflex click) should be kerning tightly in FreeSerif. This is apprearing in the Central !Kung dialects of Namibia and the Damin ritual jargon of Australia.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri Aug 14 05:16:55 2015, comment #9:

I think the kerning in some cases as ſs, ſz, ſʒ should be fixed.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon May 25 13:26:15 2015, comment #8:

See comment at bug 39474.

This resolves some of the issues mentioned here.

For the others, such as Small M + T, I will need to see an image.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed Jul 31 01:07:49 2013, comment #7:

Maybe because there's a SMALL M immediately after, which almost sticks to T, it creates this impression of mine.

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Wed Jul 31 01:06:24 2013, comment #6:

Italic SMALL U+SMALL T, isn't the space too big between them?

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Tue Jul 30 21:06:25 2013, comment #5:

In the word "engine", isn't the G too far from N? I don't think you need an image in this case.

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Fri Jul 19 22:42:43 2013, comment #4:

No this y thing is the same as the "doubling" problem we discusssed in the other thread. In the kerning editor the pairs look nothing like this.

I really haven't had a chance to diagnose that problem.
Only now, I can't seem to turn it on and off as I did before, by building the .otf file directly. Mystery.

I tightenened up f with round letters.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri Jul 19 17:47:07 2013, comment #3:

Also check the italic "y+something", it seems still too narrow even on XeLaTeX. Is it a bug of the program, or is it a flaw in the font, or am I just fixated on kerning? :)

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Fri Jul 19 08:40:58 2013, comment #2:

What about the "offo" pair, isn't the second "o" a bit too far too?

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Fri Jul 19 00:02:40 2013, comment #1:

Yeah, you're right. Fix in SVN.

FWIW, these pairs have been kerned, and re-kerned, many times.
Why they seem OK one day, and need adjustment another day, escapes me. But tall kinds of things can happen...

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu Jul 18 20:48:13 2013, original submission:

In the word "effect" with an "ff" ligature, isn't the second "e" too far away from "ff", as compared to the first "e"? I don't think an image is necessary in this case.

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>


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    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Fri Jul 19 00:02:40 2013Stevan_WhiteStatusNone=>Fix posted
      Assigned toNone=>Stevan_White

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