taskSavannah Administration - Tasks: task #4483, Submission of tlgu - TLG/PHI to...

 
 

task #4483: Submission of tlgu - TLG/PHI to UTF-8 utility

Submitter:  tlgu <tlgu>
Submitted:  Sun 07 Aug 2005 01:17:35 PM UTC
   
 
Should Start On:  Sun 07 Aug 2005 12:00:00 AM UTC Should be Finished on:  Wed 17 Aug 2005 12:00:00 AM UTC
Category:  Project Approval Priority:  * 5 - Normal
Status:  Cancelled Privacy:  Public
Assigned to:  kickino Open/Closed:  Closed
* Mandatory Fields

Add a New Comment Rich Markup
   

Jump to the original submission

Wed 24 Aug 2005 08:31:55 PM UTC, comment #19: 

Hi Sebastian.

I hope that we are not all dead when GPL v3 is out...

Also, you realize that GPL was written for the US (?) market.  But the free/open (RMS forbid) software movement is quite more expansive.  Plus, all this is (almost) theoretical.

In the meantime I really think that the planned v3 (or whatever) text must get wider publicity (by getting posted and/or commented somewhere) and an effort must be made for the globalization of this license.

Thank you for your time - I will try to get a few educated opinions and get back to you.

Best regards,

tlgu <tlgu>
Tue 23 Aug 2005 05:04:06 PM UTC, comment #18: 

Hello.

As I allready explained. If you are dead and GPL V3 is out we cannot ask you to publish your files again under this license.

We always try to improve things so we also try to improve the GPL.

| The author is not granted the same rights as the redistributor or
| modifier.

The author have got more rights then the redistributor or modifier or at least the same.
The author can choose the license himself the other boths cannot, but we only prefer that the author don't use only ONE version of our license.


And about the 'stealing the code'-issue. The GPL is soo old, and this happends not in the past, so why should this happen in the future?
You can trust us, and we can trust you, if you would like to release your code under V2 or any later version. :-)

Nobody can give you a "guarantee" that nobody fights against your rights, but we can give a try with the new version of the GPL.


| Is this discussion of any use in the drafting of v3?

If RMS don't read this tracker, I don't think so. ;-)


But anway. Nobody would like to change the GPL completly, we only try to improve some parts and make it compatible with actually law(s).

Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Tue 23 Aug 2005 04:28:19 PM UTC, comment #17: 

Hi Sebastian,

I get your point allright! The author must cite "either version 2, or (at your option) any later version." The "redistributor" or "modifier", however, does have the option to use version 2 (or 3 or 1000).  Can't you perceive a logical flaw here?  The redistributor can, the author can't.  The author is not granted the same rights as the redistributor or modifier.

For the sake of worse-case argument, as I don't consider my puny contribution a significant case, suppose that FSF receives a hefty grant from Ty Coon and, contrary to all expectations, decides that the new version of the GPL license assigns all rights to the dreaded Yoyodyne Inc. (names are fictitious, of course and Yoyodyne would steal any needed code, anyway)

How can you guarantee that this will never happen?

On the other hand, version 2 is quite adequate for declaring what I want to do with my code.  I don't want the particular code distributed as part of any proprietary version (commercial or otherwise); on the other hand, I don't really care about the mandatory code feedback that supposedly GPL v3 or the existing AfferoGPL guarantees.

Is this discussion of any use in the drafting of v3?

Be good,

tlgu <tlgu>
Mon 22 Aug 2005 06:43:35 PM UTC, comment #16: 

Hello.

I really try to make it clear:
"foobar is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) any later version."

The author of the source files DON'T have the choice to make the decission of the version of the license.

You only have got this choice if you want to REDISTRIBUTE and/or MODIFY the source files.

The author should ALWAYS let this choice the users and/or other maintainers.

That's why we prefer you always publish your files under "version 2 or any later version" of the GPL. So your source code can always be redistribute and/or modify under almost every version of the GPL.

Maybe you see our point, maybe not. :)
Be good


Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Mon 22 Aug 2005 04:25:10 AM UTC, comment #15: 

Hi Sebastian,

I don't think there is anything to clarify.  Either the WORD is wrong or I am reading it the wrong way; from the link you indicated (two places):

"...either version 2, or (at your option) any later version."

My option is to use version 2.  You push for "later".  When "later" is "now", I might reconsider the submission of my program to the GNU project.

Anyway, the material has already been released under the GPL and the FDL.

Be good,


tlgu <tlgu>
Sun 21 Aug 2005 06:26:22 PM UTC, comment #14: 

Hello again.

Anyway we should clarify some points.

Did you noticed that there're differences between Savannah and the GNU project?

You should have a look at
http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/License-Notices.html where our standard notice 'v2 or any later version' proves that it's a GNU project policy.

And at last, when GPLv3 is out, maybe the author will be
unreachable or even dead, that's why we ask the author to license his files under 'v2 or later' in advance.

Hopefully you understand our points now better. If you would like to re-register, feel free to do so.

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Sun 21 Aug 2005 06:11:52 PM UTC, comment #13: 

Hello.

We cannot accept GPL V2 only, so we'll remove your project - sorry.

Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Sun 21 Aug 2005 04:50:46 AM UTC, comment #12: 

Hi Sebastian,

However picky that may sound, I was under the impression that the existing GNU licenses (GPL v2, FDL v1.2), under which I publicized some of my work, were good enough for inclusion in the GNU project. 

There is no other GPL at this time. I did read the http://www.fsf.org/news/gpl3.html article.  What it says is that GPL v3 will be put up for public comment later

I cannot accept "later" guidelines.  If you still don't understand this point I will ask again that you seek advise from an elder. If GPL v2 and FDL v1.2 are still not good enough for your organization, remove my project.  No hard feelings.

Be good,

tlgu <tlgu>
Sat 20 Aug 2005 08:48:34 PM UTC, comment #11: 

Hello.

I don't understand your point.

On the one hand you submit a project for inclusion in GNU on the other hand you don't acceppt the guidlines from the FSF.

You can still change your license notices to be compatible with the guidlines (GPL V2 or any later version) or we'll remove your project.


And please read this article published by the FSF about the GPL V3:
http://www.fsf.org/news/gpl3.html

Tell us about your choice as soon as possible.
Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Sat 20 Aug 2005 03:51:21 PM UTC, comment #10: 

Hi Sebastian,

It seems that we have reached a deadlock.  I am not willing to submit my project under an unspecified and unpublished GPL license and you (the GNU project ?) is not willing to accept it under the published GPL V2.

This calls for arbitration by a GNUbile.

Be good,

P.S. I did read the AfferoGPL you mentioned (section 2d) and I was not impressed.  If GPL V3 is up for public comment please point me to the relevant site.

tlgu <tlgu>
Sat 20 Aug 2005 08:02:34 AM UTC, comment #9: 

Hello.

Please publish your software under GPL V2 or any later version.

The reasons to mention are: the license upgrade will deal with new flaws that will happen in the future (e.g. ASPs will be dealt with in GPL V3, AfferoGPL being a prototype for this).
If not GPL V2 or later, there will be a license upgrade problem for users of the code (especially if the author is not reachable anymore).

So could you please assign to GPL V2 or any later version?


Beside that, if you would like to include binarys (tlgu,*ps,*pdf) in your project you have to write a README file in the directory of them and put there the license and copyright information down.

Look forward to your response.
Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Sat 20 Aug 2005 06:11:36 AM UTC, comment #8: 

Hi Sebastian,

I updated all files according to your instructions - minus the "or later" clause.

Please take into account the following, to enable the proper use of the GNU License clauses by future iGNUramuses:

- Regarding my lack of including the "How to Apply These Terms to Your New Programs" part of the license it was due to the "END OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS" clause, one line above.  If your intention is to include the full text, then you should indicate that this HOWTO is part of the license.

- Regarding my lack of including the copyright notice at the beginning of the "source" man page as comments, it was because I don't like redundant code.

- Regarding my lack of including the "or later" clause is because I understand "or" like in choice "one -or- the other" not as in "gold".  So when you have "GNU General Public License V2 or later" I understand that "V2" is ok, "later" is also ok.  "Later" is not "now", however, and I don't know what "later" is, so I cannot consent to "later".  I can only consent to what I can grok.  If you don't want people to use "GPL V2" please explicitly say so.  If something looks "difficult" it is because we did not think about it long enough or we are looking at it from the wrong angle.

I really want to contribute to this joint effort but I also hate to barge in with my preconceptions.  Way out: you can host my project until "later" becomes "now".  Then you can easily exclude this - or any - project.  It's your server, after all.

Be good,

tlgu <tlgu>
Thu 18 Aug 2005 07:10:21 PM UTC, comment #7: 

Hello.

Okay, we see your point, and we look forward to review your source code again.

But the "GNU GPL v2 only"-issue is very difficult. If you don't change to "GNU GPL v2 or later" we cannot host your project at all.


Please let us know if you still have got problems.
Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Thu 18 Aug 2005 06:46:56 PM UTC, comment #6: 

Hi Sebastian,

I am sorry for my abrupt disappearance - regional telco problem robbed me of my (not very broad) bandwidth. 

Yes, I am still interested in having my project hosted at Savannah (and yes, I know you don't bite...)

I will update my man page as soon as possible to include the copyright notice and will also place the unabridged license in the HOWTO and let you know again. 

If nothing else, it shows what problems might arise with people actually reading and trying to comprehend the licensing material.  Maybe you should be more explicit on the "invariable" sections of the license itself.

About the missing "or later" phrase, please be lenient and let it be.  I hate to run ahead and I have seen more than enough during my 30+ years in this trip.

Be good,


tlgu <tlgu>
Wed 17 Aug 2005 09:03:16 PM UTC, comment #5: 

Hi,

I am waiting for an answer from you.

If within one week I still do not get a reply, I will remove your project.
You will still be able to register it again once you have the time to deal with the registration issues.

Are you still willing to host your project at Savannah?
If not, please tell us - we don't bite, and it will make us gain time.

Regards.

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Tue 09 Aug 2005 01:06:34 PM UTC, comment #4: 

Hello.

Okay, the tlgu.1 is the source file, but it lacks nevertheless information about copyright and license for itself - not for the project.
Please include there the permission-to-copy statements, license and copyright notices at the beginning of this file.



At second, the manual page says:
"under the terms of the GNU General Public License (version 2)" and the license notice of your source files, too.

But licensing under the "GNU GPL v2 only" is problematic.
Would you agree to license your project under the "GNU GPL v2 or later"?

The reason for this is that when we publish GPL v3,
it will be important for all GPL-covered programs to advance to GPL v3.
If you don't put this in the files now, the only way to port your program to GPL v3 would be to ask each
and every copyright holder, and that may be very difficult.

We can explain the issue in more detail if you wish.
If you have concerns about "GNU GPL v2 or later", we'd be happy to address them too.


And at last for your http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/Hellenic_polytonic_HOWTO.html:
Your imported GNU FDL is incomplete.

The license does not contain the last section, titled "How to Apply These Terms to Your New Programs".

Please use a complete verbatim copy of the license,
which may be found at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.txt.

The license must be copied verbatim and in its entirety.


Please make the changes mentioned above and provide us with an new tarball, thanks.

Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Tue 09 Aug 2005 08:54:19 AM UTC, comment #3: 

Hi Sebastian,

I did the following, according to your instructions (see http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/tlgu-1.3.zip):

- Replaced the gpl.txt in COPYING with the new gpl.txt (new address)

- Placed the whole permission-to-copy notice in tlgu.c

- Placed the "smaller" notice per your example, in *.h files

- Regarding the documentation files: The man page tlgu.1 is the source (processable by groff); both tlgu.1.html and tlgu.1.pdf are created from this source (the mandocs file explains how this is done). Compare with "man emacs".  I consider these files part of the program; GPL is the program's license.

- Regarding the http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/Hellenic_polytonic_HOWTO.html file, this is released under the (newest) FDL, which is included verbatim in the source file with a reference immediately following the document's title.  HTML is the source. pdf is a derivative, in this case, as well.

Be good,

tlgu <tlgu>
Tue 09 Aug 2005 08:51:20 AM UTC, comment #2: 

Hi Sebastian,

I did the following, according to your instructions (see http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/tlgu-1.3.zip):

- Replaced the gpl.txt in COPYING with the new gpl.txt (new address)

- Placed the whole permission-to-copy notice in tlgu.c

- Placed the "smaller" notice per your example, in *.h files

- Regarding the documentation files: The man page tlgu.1 is the source (processable by groff); both tlgu.1.html and tlgu.1.pdf are created from this source (the mandocs file explains how this is done). Compare with "man emacs".  I consider these files part of the program; GPL is the program's license.

- Regarding the http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/Hellenic_polytonic_HOWTO.html file, this is released under the (newest) FDL, which is included verbatim in the source file.  HTML is the source. pdf is a derivative, in this case, as well.

Be good,





Anonymous
Mon 08 Aug 2005 02:15:29 PM UTC, comment #1: 

Hi,
I'm evaluating the project you submitted for approval in Savannah.

At first, please include the whole permission-to-copy statements and license notices as described at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html#SEC4 at the beginning of every file of source code.



At second, your .html file lack information of copyright and license.
We prefer to use the GNU FDL for your documentations.

In order to release your project properly and unambiguously under the FDL, please place copyright notices and permission-to-copy statements after the title page of each work.

In addition, if you haven't already, please add a copy of the FDL
(available from http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html in various formats)
as a section of your works , and as plain text in a file named 'COPYING' (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.txt).

For more information, see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html#SEC4

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto.html also covers additional points, including a smaller notice that you can use in auxiliary files.



At third, I think it is not enough to include for your pdf file a ps file. You had to make sure that the source code is free available. So please include your .tex file in the project, too.
If you would like to release the source code under the FDL please follow the instructions above.


And at last, the address of the FSF has changed, and is now:

  51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301  USA

Please update your license notices.

Updates versions of the GPL, LGPL and GFDL can also be found at:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.txt
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.txt

Please update the copy of the license (usually, the 'COPYING' file) in your package as well.

You can find some background and a possible migration script at https://savannah.gnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=3766

Look forward to your updated zip-file.
Regards,

Sebastian Wieseler <kickino>
Sun 07 Aug 2005 01:17:35 PM UTC, original submission:  

A new project has been registered at Savannah
The project account will remain inactive until a site admin approve or discard the registration.


######### REGISTRATION ADMINISTRATION #########

While this item will be useful to track the registration process, approving or discarding the registration must be done using the specific "Group Administration" page, accessible only to site administrators, effectively logged as site administrators (superuser):

  <https://savannah.gnu.org/admin/groupedit.php?group_id=7851>


######### REGISTRATION DETAILS #########

Full Name:
----------
  tlgu - TLG/PHI to UTF-8 utility

System Group Name:
-----------------
  tlgu

Type:
-----
  Official GNU software

License:
--------
  GNU General Public License V2 or later

Description:
------------
  tlgu is a utility for converting an input file in Thesaurus Linguae Graeca (TLG) / Packard Humanities Institute (PHI) representation to Unicode (UTF-8).

The TLG representation consists of beta-code text and citation information.

http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/ - project home page (aka tlgu.carmen.gr if the nameserver works...)

http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/tlgu-1.3.zip - includes source and project documentation

Also,

http://www.cap8.gr/tlgu/Hellenic_polytonic_HOWTO.html

All the above are GPL'ed


Other Software Required:
------------------------
  standard libc (no special requirements)


tlgu <tlgu>

 

(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

Attach Files:
   
   
Comment:
   

No files currently attached

 

Depends on the following items: None found

Items that depend on this one: None found

 

CC list is empty

 

There are 0 votes so far. Votes easily highlight which items people would like to see resolved in priority, independently of the priority of the item set by tracker managers.

Only logged-in users can vote.

 

Follow 7 latest changes.

Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
2005-08-21 kickino StatusNeed Info Cancelled
    Open/ClosedOpen Closed
2005-08-20 kickino StatusWait reply Need Info
2005-08-18 kickino StatusPing-ed Wait reply
2005-08-17 kickino StatusWait reply Ping-ed
2005-08-08 kickino Assigned toNone kickino
2005-08-08 kickino StatusNone Wait reply

Back to the top

Powered by Savane 3.13-caa5.
Corresponding source code