bugGNU roff - Bugs: bug #67657, NEWS: hdtbl package works also...

 
 

bug #67657: NEWS: hdtbl package works also with -Tpdf and -Tdvi

Submitter:  Bjarni Ingi Gislason <bjarniig>
Submitted:  Sun 02 Nov 2025 11:25:59 PM UTC
   
 
Category:  General Severity:  3 - Normal
Item Group:  Documentation Status:  Need Info
Privacy:  Public Assigned to:  None
Open/Closed:  Open Planned Release:  None
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Discussion

Sat 13 Dec 2025 09:54:41 PM UTC, comment #4: 

At 2025-12-13T16:24:17-0500, Dave wrote:

> The only changes to non-current NEWS I remembered seeing (admittedly
> an incomplete record) were to aid clarity or correctness of existing
> items.  To me, that didn't extrapolate to adding content.


Fair.

> But if you're willing, sure, why not...


If it seems to make a difference to our users, yes.  I don't think
that's yet been established in the instant case, thought.

> > if we neglected to do so at the time, and
> > the issue seems important.
> >
> > I'm not sure that's true of the hdtbl package's support for
> > "dvi" and "pdf" output devices.
>
> ...if this criterion is met.


Right.

> > But I also don't see any evidence that that "support" has been
> > rigorously evaluated.
>
> "Rigor" and "hdtbl" seem to have never met, and it was NEWSed
> previously without this criterion, so that shouldn't be an obstacle
> now.


Perhaps I am more cruel and demanding than past maintainers...  😈

G. Branden Robinson <gbranden>
Group administrator
Sat 13 Dec 2025 09:24:13 PM UTC, comment #3: 

comment #2:

> I've retrospectively updated "NEWS" before


The only changes to non-current NEWS I remembered seeing (admittedly an incomplete record) were to aid clarity or correctness of existing items.  To me, that didn't extrapolate to adding content.  But if you're willing, sure, why not...

> if we neglected to do so at the time, and
> the issue seems important.
>
> I'm not sure that's true of the hdtbl package's support for
> "dvi" and "pdf" output devices.


...if this criterion is met.

> But I also don't see any evidence that that "support" has been
> rigorously evaluated.


"Rigor" and "hdtbl" seem to have never met, and it was NEWSed previously without this criterion, so that shouldn't be an obstacle now.

Dave <barx>
Group Member
Sat 13 Dec 2025 06:27:12 PM UTC, comment #2: 

At 2025-12-13T13:10:37-0500, Dave wrote:

> Update of bug #67657 (group groff):
>
>                   Status:                    None => Need Info
>
>     _____________________________________________________
>
> Follow-up Comment #1:
>
> The sentence you quote appears under the "VERSION 1.20" section of the
> file.  Sentences in any news items of previous releases are subject
> to becoming outdated.


That's true.

> If hdtbl support for -Tpdf and -Tdvi is new to the upcoming release,


I'm confident that's not the case.

> then that warrants a new news item.


> If this support was added in some prior release but not announced,
> then that window has closed: we don't retroactively add news items for
> previous releases.


I don't know that I'd be militant about that principle.  I've
retrospectively updated "NEWS" before and felt no shame in doing so.

Here's a recently committed example.


$ git show b289069602f4019ce915ee9c14cccaf3fb77f7c5
commit b289069602f4019ce915ee9c14cccaf3fb77f7c5
Author: G. Branden Robinson <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Dec 2 22:52:11 2025 -0600

    NEWS: Revise old item for (attempted) clarity.

diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS
index 3e3e369b9..3fdf89c9f 100644
--- a/NEWS
+++ b/NEWS
@@ -1208,10 +1208,10 @@ Macro packages
    the line length on nroff devices prior to processing a man page.
    This was deprecated in groff 1.18 (July 2002), and all known man
    program and macro package implementations either have set an LL
-   register since 2002 (man-db man), 2005 (Brouwer/Lucifredi man), or
+   register since 2002 (man-db man) or 2005 (Brouwer/Lucifredi man);
    don't let the user vary the line length freely (DWB troff, Solaris
-   troff, Plan 9 troff), don't permit its configuration via the `ll`
-   request (mandoc), or at all (Heirloom Doctools troff).
+   troff, Plan 9 troff); or don't permit its configuration via the `ll`
+   request (mandoc) or at all (Heirloom Doctools troff).

 *  The an (man) macro package now interprets the value of the `HY`
    register as a Boolean; using it to set a specific hyphenation mode is


That was more of a grammar issue than anything else, admittedly.

Here's another.


commit 14a2f22d172767bddc70053075da9fd9f232916d
Author: G. Branden Robinson <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
Date:   Sat Sep 14 13:26:39 2024 -0500

    NEWS: Recast old item to avoid Ericsson English.

    Den här Bud är till dig, Doug.  Bork bork bork!

    https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2024-09/msg00040.html

    Also fix item to use "Boolean" as an adjective, not a noun.

    Also further comment an example.

    Also clarify other old items.

    And fix another to favor active voice over passive.

diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS
index ad48ba133..ce82dee69 100644
--- a/NEWS
+++ b/NEWS
@@ -31,7 +31,7 @@ o The `mso` request no longer attempts to open a macro file named, say,
   `mso` is itself a groff extension), consider the following.

     .\" Load the ms package, whatever it might be named.
-    .msoquiet s.tmac
+    .msoquiet s.tmac \" If file present, defines `LP` macro.
     .if !d LP .msoquiet tmac.s

 o GNU troff no longer accepts nonpositive page lengths.  Attempting to
@@ -92,7 +92,7 @@ o A new request, `hydefault`, and read-only register, `.hydefault`,
   this release, the foregoing input now works as desired.

 o A new read-only, string-valued register, `.trap`, interpolates the
-  name of the next vertical position trap that will be sprung.
+  name of the next vertical position trap after the drawing position.

 o New registers `.it`, `.itc`, and `.itm` are available.  These
   read-only (and, in the case of `.itm`, string-valued) registers report
@@ -119,8 +119,8 @@ o A new request, `pline`, reports to the standard error stream the list
   of output nodes (an internal data structure) corresponding to
   the pending output line.  The list is empty if no such nodes exist.

-o The `pnr` request now accepts arguments; each is treated as
-  identifying a register, and its properties reported to the standard
+o The `pnr` request now accepts arguments.  It treats each as
+  identifying a register and reports its properties to the standard
   error stream.

 o The `hla` request, when invoked with no arguments, now clears the
@@ -290,10 +290,10 @@ o The behavior of the an (man) package's `SY` and `YS` macros has been

 o The an (man), doc (mdoc), and doc-old (mdoc-old) macro packages have
   changed the default line length when formatting on terminals from 78n
-  to 80n.  The latter is a vastly more common configuration, but that
-  line length had been avoided for decades (perhaps as long as groff has
-  existed), for an undocumented reason.  That reason appears to have
-  been the interaction of bugs in GNU tbl(1) with an aspect of
+  to 80n.  The latter is a vastly more common device configuration, but
+  that line length had been avoided for decades (perhaps as long as
+  groff has existed), for an undocumented reason.  That reason appears
+  to have been the interaction of bugs in GNU tbl(1) with an aspect of
   grotty(1)'s design.  Those bugs have been resolved.  A man(1) program
   can still instruct groff to format for any desired line length by
   setting the `LL` register on {g,n,t}roff's command line.
@@ -423,11 +423,11 @@ o The m (mm) macro package now supports a user-definable hook macro
   normal operation.  Applications include customization of letterhead.

 o The m (mm) macro package's `LI` macro now interprets its second
-  argument as a Boolean indicating whether a space should separate the
-  list item mark from its prefix (the first argument).  Thus, where you
-  formerly specified "2" to indicate no such separation, you would now
-  use "0", matching the semantics of the former `Limsp` register.  "2"
-  continues to be recognized and handled as before, but prompts a
+  argument as a Boolean value indicating whether a space should separate
+  the list item mark from its prefix (the first argument).  Thus, where
+  you formerly specified "2" to indicate no such separation, you would
+  now use "0", matching the semantics of the former `Limsp` register.
+  "2" continues to be recognized and handled as before, but prompts a
   warning; migrate your documents.

 o The m (mm) macro package now supports the `E` register as DWB mm did.
@@ -531,8 +531,7 @@ o The `troffrc` file now loads an English localization file instead of

 o A new read-only register `.cp` is implemented.  Within a `do` request,
   "\n[.cp]" holds the saved value of compatibility mode.  See
-  groff_diff(7) or the groff Texinfo manual for rationale, use case, and
-  example.
+  groff_diff(7) or the groff Texinfo manual for rationale and example.

 o New read-only registers `.nm` and `.nn` are implemented.  `.nm` is of
   Boolean sense, reporting the enablement status of output line


So if grammar and clarity fixes are fair game, it's hard for me to argue
that it's inappropriate to retrospectively document a "Feature change"
(as we term it in Savannah) if we neglected to do so at the time, and
the issue seems important.

I'm not sure that's true of the hdtbl package's support for "dvi" and
"pdf" output devices.

But I also don't see any evidence that that "support" has been
rigorously evaluated.  Little else about hdtbl has been.  Its lone
automated test exercises its functionality only in the grossest sense.

https://cgit.git. ... da4a0bfa76f6d8730

G. Branden Robinson <gbranden>
Group administrator
Sat 13 Dec 2025 06:10:34 PM UTC, comment #1: 

The sentence you quote appears under the "VERSION 1.20" section of the file.  Sentences in any news items of previous releases are subject to becoming outdated.

If hdtbl support for -Tpdf and -Tdvi is new to the upcoming release, then that warrants a new news item.  If this support was added in some prior release but not announced, then that window has closed: we don't retroactively add news items for previous releases.

Dave <barx>
Group Member
Sun 02 Nov 2025 11:25:59 PM UTC, original submission:  

[NEWS] Package "hdtbl" works also with -Tpdf and -Tdvi

  The sentence

This package currently works with `-Tps' only.

  is outdated.

Bjarni Ingi Gislason <bjarniig>

 

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    History

    Follow 2 latest changes.

    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    2025-12-13 barx StatusNone Need Info
    2025-11-03 gbranden Summary[NEWS] Package &quot;hdtbl&quot; works also with -Tpdf and -Tdvi NEWS: hdtbl package works also with -Tpdf and -Tdvi

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