bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #51037, Yod yod pataḥ looks wrong by...


bug #51037: Yod yod pataḥ looks wrong by default

Submitted by:  David Corbett <dscorbett>
Submitted on:  Tue 16 May 2017 02:40:22 PM UTC  
Category:  individual character(s) Severity:  3 - Normal
Item Group:  glyph(s) incorrect Status:  Need info
Privacy:  Public Assigned to:  Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed:  Open Release:  development

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Mon 22 May 2017 12:44:53 AM UTC, comment #2:

Answer 1: Yod + pataḥ is used in Hebrew, but that is the wrong question. This bug report is about double yod + pataḥ. Only Yiddish uses double yod + pataḥ.

Answer 2: Yiddish raises subscript vowel signs whenever there is room to do so, which is only in yod + ḥiriq and double yod + pataḥ. Hebrew does not raise subscript vowel signs except in final kaf + shva and final kaf + qamats.

Double yod has its own code point: U+05F2 HEBREW LIGATURE YIDDISH DOUBLE YOD. It is not used in Hebrew. It is only used in Yiddish.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Sun 21 May 2017 06:48:44 PM UTC, comment #1:

This issue seems to hang on the question of whether the combination is used in Hebrew.

It has certainly been our impression that the combination is used both in Yiddish and Heberew,
and that the positioning differs between the two lonaguages. I took measures to implement
the positionings described to me, and I thought they were right, as of sometime in 2012.

Question 1: Is Yod-Patah used in Heberew at all?

Question 2: What are the conventional positionings in the two languages?

In these bug reports alone, the question has arisen before:

#49002 Poor positioning of dagesh
Sept 2016, discussion with D. Corbett
I state that yod-patah does occur in Hebrew (but don't say by whom).
Discussion about renderer pre-composing letters

#35409 Incorrect placement of khirik-yud for Yiddish in FreeSans
Jan 2012, discussion that implies a Yod-Patah in Hebrew.

#34548 Positioning of some hebrew characters with xe(la)tex
Oct 2011

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 16 May 2017 02:40:22 PM UTC, original submission:

In FreeSerif, ⟨ײַ⟩ looks like ⟨ייַ⟩: the pataḥ is low and under the second yod. In FreeSerif Bold and Bold Italic, FreeMono (all but regular), and FreeSans (all), the pataḥ is centered properly, but it is still low. The pataḥ should always be raised when applied to the double yod: the double yod is only used in Yiddish so raising is always warranted. These fonts do raise the pataḥ when the text is tagged as Yiddish, but in plain text and other environments where language-tagging is impossible, FreeFont renders ⟨ײַ⟩ wrong.

David Corbett <dscorbett>


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