bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #34688, Wrong glyph for cursive U+0453...

 
 

bug #34688: Wrong glyph for cursive U+0453 Macedonian gje

Submitted by:  Alessandro Ceschini <aleces>
Submitted on:  Sat 29 Oct 2011 09:36:03 PM UTC  
 
Category: individual character(s)Severity: 3 - Normal
Item Group: glyph(s) incorrectStatus: Fixed
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: ClosedRelease: 2010-09-19

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Wed 02 Nov 2011 02:50:52 PM UTC, comment #5:

Little recapitulation about Macedonian:

1) Same localized glyphs as Serbian for Regular/Italic BE, and Italic GE, DE, PE TE
2) No optional glyph for Italic SHA (just normal, Russian SHA)
3) Specific Macedonian localized glyph for MACEDONIAN GJE

Alessandro Ceschini <aleces>
Sun 30 Oct 2011 11:36:25 AM UTC, comment #4:

All, right, you're 100% right, the second option (Macedonian glyph in Macedonian GSUB) is the preferred choice because removing the standard glyph would create an inconsistent user experience in programs that don't support OpenType (i.e. 90% of software). From a Macedonian user's point of view, it would certainly be better to stick to the complete set of wrong Italic glyphs than having one correct (GJE) and the other five wrong. It would also create an inconsistence in the appearance of GE and MACEDONIAN GJE, which would be identical in Regular while diverging in Italic (GE as a reversed S, MACEDONIAN GJE as I macron+accent).
That's it, you're right, but then you'll have to admit the consistency imperative should be applied to CYRILLIC UK too :)

Alessandro Ceschini <aleces>
Sun 30 Oct 2011 11:15:44 AM UTC, comment #3:

Alessandro,

Going again through the references, I think I see what you're proposing. And I did get mixed up -- it's a little confusing.

Let me write the whole thing out.

Regarding the small cursive Cyrillic letters ge
Russian cursive ge looks like a backwards Latin s.
Serbian (and macedonian) use instead an italic Latin i with a macron.

Explicit picture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Cyrillic_alphabet

These differences are not encoded in Unicode. The proper way to handle them is with a 'locl' localized substitution in the font.

Next the question of the letter gje. This letter is used only in Macedonian. It should look like a ge with acute accent.

A picture of cursive handwriting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_alphabet

Now, how to implement the gje?

You are saying the base glyph for gje should be already the Macedonian style, as no other alphabets use the letter.
Fair enough, but it makes the base glyph table inconsistent: the gje should look like a ge in any case. This would make the ge like a backward s and the gje like an i-macron.

The other alternative is to make the base glyphs consistent, and in the case of Serbian or Macedonian locale, replace both glyphs with the Serbian/Macedonian i-macron style. I prefer this approach, because this way the two characters are consistent, whether lookups are functioning or not.

This affects only FreeSerifItalic and FreeSerifBoldItalic. In SVN.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 30 Oct 2011 09:56:53 AM UTC, comment #2:

Gulp! It means all the chat we had did NOT bring us to an understanding!!! Macedonian uses the same glyphs that Serbian does, so MACEDONIAN GJE should be an accented SERBIAN not RUSSIAN GE. When I suggested you should drop the lookup, I thought you'd implemented GSUB for Macedonian with the correct (i.e. Serbian-looking) glyph, which is rather absurd since this is an exclusively Macedonian character.
So, and I hope this time you're going to get the message, my suggestion is that you should remove the present Italic glyph (Russian GE+ accent) and substitute it with a Serbian GE + accent.
Or, if that doesn't convince you, implement a Macedonian GSUB with all Serbian substitutions plus Italic GJE.
It's up to you: I preferred the first one (dropping the Russian glyph) because while BE DE GE PE TE (and SHA) do occur in Russian and other Cyrillic-based languages, MACEDONIAN GJE, as the name says, is an exclusively Macedonian letter. As far as I'm concerned, a substitution table for MACEDONIAN GJE is redundant and inconsistent (the standard glyph would be ALWAYS inappropriate).

Alessandro Ceschini <aleces>
Sat 29 Oct 2011 10:49:55 PM UTC, comment #1:

Alessandro,

I think I did not change the serif cursive gje -- it has looked like the cursive ge with an accent for years. As near as I can tell, that is the correct, standard form for Macedonian.

There was recently some confusion with Serbian, wherein I implemented a lookup table to "fix* the glyph for Serbian. But the character isn't used in Serbian at all, so I removed the lookup. Just a temporary misunderstanding.

Thanks!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 29 Oct 2011 09:36:03 PM UTC, original submission:

I open this thread just for the sake of clarity, in order to let people know you're about to change it and to give them the possibility to "appeal" your decision, but I don't think there is any doubt that what's actually the Macedonian localized glyph, looking like an Italic Serbian GE plus an accent, should replace the standard glyph, thus removing any need for a GSUB substitution lookup.

Alessandro Ceschini <aleces>

 

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    Follow 9 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Thu 03 May 2012 03:50:45 PM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusFix posted=>Fixed
      Open/ClosedOpen=>Closed
    Fri 25 Nov 2011 02:12:14 PM UTCalecesCarbon-CopyRemoved 85679=>-
    Sun 30 Oct 2011 11:15:44 AM UTCStevan_WhiteSeverity2 - Minor=>3 - Normal
      StatusNon-bug=>Fix posted
      SummaryWrong glyph for Italic U+0453 CYRILLIC LETTER MACEDONIAN GJE=>Wrong glyph for cursive U+0453 Macedonian gje
    Sat 29 Oct 2011 10:49:55 PM UTCStevan_WhiteSeverity3 - Normal=>2 - Minor
      StatusNone=>Non-bug
      Assigned toNone=>Stevan_White

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