taskSavannah Administration - Tasks: task #11408, Submission of Free Reservation...

 
 

task #11408: Submission of Free Reservation System

Submitted by:  Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Submitted on:  Sat 08 Oct 2011 09:15:36 AM UTC  
 
Should Start On: Fri 07 Oct 2011 10:00:00 PM UTCShould be Finished on: Mon 17 Oct 2011 10:00:00 PM UTC
Category: Project ApprovalPriority: 5 - Normal
Status: CancelledPrivacy: Public
Percent Complete: 0%Assigned to: Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Open/Closed: ClosedEffort: 0.00

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Fri 28 Oct 2011 11:20:08 PM UTC, comment #14:

I changed the license on the project. Thanks.

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Fri 28 Oct 2011 02:19:27 PM UTC, comment #13:

Could you please change the license of the project to the
The GNU Affero General Public License (version 3)?

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Sat 15 Oct 2011 08:49:50 AM UTC, comment #12:

Foursquare is a collaborative service like Wikipedia; it is not SaaS. The content that is in part created by its users (one can add venues) is owned by Foursquare, however.

The license of the OpenTravel Allicance, however, appears to require that software following the specification must be "individual or proprietary". Thus it is currently not possible to implement an OpenTravel Alliance connector as free software. I have documented that in the source code.

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Fri 14 Oct 2011 02:01:06 AM UTC, comment #11:

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GNU Savannah task #11408: Submission of Free Reservation System

Thanks for your clarification.

I have approved the project right now to avoid further delays. You
will receive an auto-generated email containing detailed information
about the approval.

We will continue the registration process in the (D)VCS repository of
your choice. I will close this task when I can check everything is
ok.

> Foursquare is a proprietary service that holds location data. There
> are open variants of this service. Should I use Foursquare or the
> open variant Ushahidi/Crowdmap.com?


This is confussing. I don't know what you do mean by "proprietary
service". A service can't be distributed or modified (At least, not
like free software); maybe you meant the software used to provide
the service is proprietary?.

If Crowdmap.com runs on free software, then promoting Crowdmap.com is
a way to promote its software, and hence free software.

> My software does have a proposed Foursquare connector.


Right. Do you think there could be an issue with Foursquare regarding
the free software philosphy?. If Foursquare promotes proprietary
software or ideals we don't agree with, you can add a notice in the
documentation regarding why we don't agree nor support it. If the
Foursquare platform software is proprietary software then its owners
are loosing their freedom by using it, but its users do not
necessarily do (The aforesaid essay regarding SaaS talks about this
point, among other things). It may also be the case the Foursquare
software hasn't been published, so the question of whether it's free
looses its meaning.

Regards.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 12 Oct 2011 12:41:16 PM UTC, comment #10:

I have decided to relicense the software under the Affero GPL license. (I have also added "http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html" to the German wikiversity curriculum: http://de.wikiversity.org/wiki/Lehrplan:Digitale_Gesellschaft)

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Wed 12 Oct 2011 12:01:19 PM UTC, comment #9:

I have (hopefully) fixed a communication problem by renaming my Wikiversity course to:
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Free_Software_And_Open_Source_Ethics

I have previously failed to distinguish free software and open source the way you do. The GPL was just an important type of OSI approved open source license from my perspective.

We do appear to have a number of other misunderstandings in our communication:

(1)
I meant to say that governments employ artifical scarcity and the FSF not only promotes free software but also free content, which appears to indicate a tendency towards a whole free knowledge economy. A free knowledge society requires funding. (I'm sure RMS also likes to eat now and then also requires electricity for his computers.) The FSF could DO MORE TO MOTIVATE PEOPLE TO PROVIDE VOLUNTARY FUNDING without requiring them to pay. Donations are less motivating than - let's say software that proposes to pay a "voluntary culture flatrate" (a culture flatrate is being discussed in Germany) or allows to purchase shares in the further development of the software, thus providing funding for the developers. This function could be integrated into the typical About/License dialogs or into package managers (e.g. Cygwin installer).

(2)
Foursquare is a proprietary service that holds location data. There are open variants of this service. Should I use Foursquare or the open variant Ushahidi/Crowdmap.com?
My software does have a proposed Foursquare connector.
I did offer to help should the FSF decide to operate a Crowdmap server. I could help as programmer and administrator.

I will send you the updated tar file as requested as soon as you let me know if the Foursquare connector is acceptable or should be replaced with a Crowdmap.com or similar connector.

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Wed 12 Oct 2011 03:57:59 AM UTC, comment #8:

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>> A business based on deprivation of user freedom is inmoral. We don't
>> want it to continue that way. His owner could switch to a business
>> model based on free software and benefit from other free alternatives
>> rather than complain of a "competence".
>
> Wouldn't consequently all governments in the developed world that
> employ artifical scarcity be evil? [...]


My quoted paragraph regards free software. I fail to see the relation
to the artifical scarcity or to all the governments. That seems more
like an attempt of an straw man fallacy.

I'm not familiar with Expedia and I have no particular interest on it.
I can't tell if the business around it is inmoral. Likewise I'm not
familiar with "roll your own foursquare".

Maybe you're confussing the problem of proprietary software with the
problem of software as a service. You can find more information in
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html.

> I'd be glad to help as programmer and system administrator. It
> could also be connected to Wikipedia and/or WikiTravel.


Sorry, I don't understand. Help what?.

>> A reference to the ethics of open source as something to follow
>> backfires on our mission. Couldn't you please refer instead to the
>> free software philosophy (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/)?.
>
> It would not make sense anymore.
> (The two references are of different type; my reference is a course.)


Likewise, it wouldn't make sense to promote the open source viewpoint
in a project supposed to advance free software.

> I could offer to change the comment of OTAConnector to "Left as en
> exercise to the reader" but as a maintainer I would recommend to
> anybody trying to submit the class to fork the project. I would
> link to your philosophy but you do not seem to approve of the
> educational effects I'm trying to achieve.


That seems ok. The promotion of the open source ethics is the issue.

> I didn't clearly state that OTAConnector is not required: It isn't.
> It is merely an alternative for accessing information through this
> specific protocol, which happens to be the industry standard.


Ok.

> If your aim is to make the whole knowledge sector free then you
> probably should motivate people to make voluntary payments. [...]


The FSF accepts and encourages donations (http://donate.fsf.org/).

Asking for "payments" for using GNU software would have a negative
effect because it could misled users to think they consume a resource
by using software (The resource they would pay for), that's one of the
fallacies proprietary software is based on. There is more information
in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Consumer.
Strictly speaking there can be no payment for using software because
there is nothing to pay for.

There can be a payments for developing software. You can pay any
programmer who is willing to develop a package according to GNU good
practices and offer it to GNU
(http://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.html) or to work over an existing
GNU package and send the changes to the maintainer.

> Yes. That was my mistake and I will fix it. I had assumed my program
> had updated all headers and alerted me of all headers where that
> procedure had failed.


Ok.

> I have tried to motivate that thought in the chapter on "Open source
> social responsibility" in
> http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Open_Source_Ethics : [...]


As you have presumably readed when registering the project and as I
have repeated in a previous message, GNU Savannah mission is to
advance free softwre. We don't support open source.

> for instance with charitable license terms (e.g. as found in the
> Charity Software License, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/CSL)


I'm not familiar with such a license, but as far as I have readed it
seems a very good example of why we don't promote open source.

I'm glad to provide clarifications regarding the philosophy of the GNU
project but please bear in mind this tracker item is not meant as a
discussion place for our personal opinions.

I await you submit the updated tarball so I can approve the project if
there are no further issues and you can continue development or other
activities.

Regards and thanks in advance.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 11 Oct 2011 01:53:13 PM UTC, comment #7:

I didn't clearly state that OTAConnector is not required: It isn't.
It is merely an alternative for accessing information through this specific protocol, which happens to be the industry standard.

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Tue 11 Oct 2011 01:39:25 PM UTC, comment #6:

> GNU Savannah mission is to advance free software. We don't support
> open source because it misses the point of free software
> (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html).
> That's also mentioned in our hosting requirements. Please read
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Closed too.


Ok.

> A reference to the ethics of open source as something to follow
> backfires on our mission. Couldn't you please refer instead to the
> free software philosophy (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/)?.


It would not make sense anymore.
(The two references are of different type; my reference is a course.)

>> but is there a need for a free high level reservation system?
>
> Ask yourself if there is a need for an high level reservation system.
> I don't know, but if there is, then it ought to be free software.
>
>> I think closed-source competitors wouldn't like it [...]
>
> A business based on deprivation of user freedom is inmoral. We don't
> want it to continue that way. His owner could switch to a business
> model based on free software and benefit from other free alternatives
> rather than complain of a "competence".


Wouldn't consequently all governments in the developed world that
employ artifical scarcity be evil? To me artifical scarcity appears
to be a fundamental aspect of contemporary society.

Is Expedia immoral? They aren't publishing their source code either.
Then you would require a free software alternative to Expedia.
I'm just not convinced that this is actually your position.

If that is your position then please roll your own foursquare:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/roll_your_own_foursquare_ushahidi_launches_open-so.php

I'd be glad to help as programmer and system administrator.
It could also be connected to Wikipedia and/or WikiTravel.

> We will happily host a project for the development of a free
> reservation system. Maybe it's understood without saying than you're
> not obligated to develop it to the same technical level as existing
> proprietary systems. However, we shouldn't negate nor discourage the
> possibility for anybody else to continue it. Could you please change
> the relevant comment in OTAConnector.java accordingly?.


I could offer to change the comment of OTAConnector to "Left as en
exercise to the reader" but as a maintainer I would recommend to
anybody trying to submit the class to fork the project.
I would link to your philosophy but you do not seem to approve of
the educational effects I'm trying to achieve.

> You can learn more about the free software philosophy from the above
> links.
>
> What's the role of OTAConnector.java?. Will FRS function properly
> without it?.


OpenTravel Alliance is a convenient industry standard that could give
you about the same access to information as Expedia.
The whole specification is open and free and everybody is free to
develop that kind of software anyway.

>> I see the further development of the system as an intellectual
>> challenge and would rather add some exercises to it than spoil the
>> educational effects.
>
> In my opinion someone looking for an intellectual challenge
> specifically related to FRS can always implement a new feature. If
> need be, they can also rewrite an existing feature. I would rather
> advance the project as much as possible because AFAIK it's meant for
> practical use and there will always be something for those hungry to
> challenge themselves. This is just a personal suggestion.


There may be people "hungry to challenge themselves" but there are also
many people who benefit from being motivated and capitalism appears to
be their predominant motivation. If my system would supply too much that
motivation would be carelessly taken away from them.
I do think that software-that-hasn't-been-written-several-times-already
is a resource that can be depleted, especially with free software.

If your aim is to make the whole knowledge sector free then you probably
should motivate people to make voluntary payments. (The payment is
voluntary but the user is kindly asked to consider making the payment,
which is a stronger motivation than asking for donations but still free.)
The FSF itself would, of course, significantly benefit from this attitude.

I have tried to motivate that thought in the chapter on
"Open source social responsibility" in
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Open_Source_Ethics :

The term corporate social responsibility refers to the social responsibility
of the corporate sector. In analogy a member of the open source community
could and should demand "open source social responsibility".

Exercise:

What are the ends and side effects of open source software development?
What could and should be the responsibilies of open source software developers?
What are problems an open source software developer may have an obligation to prevent altogether (possibly by planning ahead)?

One could argue that philanthropic open source software may suffer from the problem
that is has the potential to create business opportunities that might otherwise not
have existed, possibly without providing any goods or services beneficial to the more
usual recipients of charitable giving. Thus the more usual recipients of charitable
giving (who very likely do not own a computer) may even be affected negatively by this
kind of philanthropy through the diversion of financial resources. Even the GNU General
Public License and other licenses that may make commercial use less profitable do have
the potential to contribute to this effect. One could see this as a motivation for open
source authors and users to intentionally counter this effect, for instance with
charitable license terms (e.g. as found in the Charity Software License,
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/CSL) or a request for voluntary donations (e.g. as found in
the vsrs reservation system, vsrs.sf.net ²).

²) The system my project has been forked from.

> Also, the header of HotelChain.java reads "Open Reservation System".
> Wasn't the project named "Free Reservation System"?.


Yes. That was my mistake and I will fix it. I had assumed my program
had updated all headers and alerted me of all headers where that
procedure had failed.

> Please update your tarball and provide further information when
> required.

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Tue 11 Oct 2011 03:36:12 AM UTC, comment #5:

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GNU Savannah task #11408: Submission of Free Reservation System

Hello Bernhard.

GNU Savannah mission is to advance free software. We don't support
open source because it misses the point of free software
(http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html).
That's also mentioned in our hosting requirements. Please read
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Closed too.

A reference to the ethics of open source as something to follow
backfires on our mission. Couldn't you please refer instead to the
free software philosophy (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/)?.

> but is there a need for a free high level reservation system?


Ask yourself if there is a need for an high level reservation system.
I don't know, but if there is, then it ought to be free software.

> I think closed-source competitors wouldn't like it [...]


A business based on deprivation of user freedom is inmoral. We don't
want it to continue that way. His owner could switch to a business
model based on free software and benefit from other free alternatives
rather than complain of a "competence".

We will happily host a project for the development of a free
reservation system. Maybe it's understood without saying than you're
not obligated to develop it to the same technical level as existing
proprietary systems. However, we shouldn't negate nor discourage the
possibility for anybody else to continue it. Could you please change
the relevant comment in OTAConnector.java accordingly?.

You can learn more about the free software philosophy from the above
links.

What's the role of OTAConnector.java?. Will FRS function properly
without it?.

> I see the further development of the system as an intellectual
> challenge and would rather add some exercises to it than spoil the
> educational effects.


In my opinion someone looking for an intellectual challenge
specifically related to FRS can always implement a new feature. If
need be, they can also rewrite an existing feature. I would rather
advance the project as much as possible because AFAIK it's meant for
practical use and there will always be something for those hungry to
challenge themselves. This is just a personal suggestion.

Also, the header of HotelChain.java reads "Open Reservation System".
Wasn't the project named "Free Reservation System"?.

Please update your tarball and provide further information when
required.

Regards.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 10 Oct 2011 03:03:05 PM UTC, comment #4:

>> There is no point to assign an independent copyright to the JAXB
>> generated content, because it has been generated from
>> http://esp.nongnu.org/esp.xsd.gz, which is already under GPL.
> Is that information already stated somewhere in the tarball?


Not yet, I'll include the file itself, which does contain the GPL license. Changing the generated content is pointless because re-generation would remove the comments.

>> I suppose you don't consider the reference to
>> http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Open_Source_Ethics in the header of
>> org/nongnu/frs/service/opentravel/OTAConnector.java a problem
>> either?
> Sorry, I haven't noticed it the first time I checked the project.
> What does it means, exactly?. It seems like it's asking for not to
> disturb proprietary business by forcing the user to "buy" the
> software, that would be an inacceptable for a free software package.


I'm merely asking contributors not to release an OTA connector as Public Domain (I'm forking this project from a project which is released as Public Domain, but I'm the primary author of that project as well). I do think a GPL version could also remain more a "proof of concept" design (of this single class, not the whole project), because my aim is not to provide a high quality system for free. There are several companies that sell nothing much but such systems. Personally I lack the motivation to disrupt their business. I merely want to offer an entry level system that cannot do all the things (e.g. OTA) you might want from a professional system. Of course I appreciate that this view does not apply to all open source software components (e.g. the Linux kernel and GCC for instance), but is there a need for a free high level reservation system? I think closed-source competitors wouldn't like it and even users might dislike it if other users of the system became their competitors too easily. I see the further development of the system as an intellectual challenge and would rather add some exercises to it than spoil the educational effects. (See http://vsrs.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/vsrs/README?view=markup for exercises in the original project).

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Sun 09 Oct 2011 04:35:52 PM UTC, comment #3:

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GNU Savannah task #11408: Submission of Free Reservation System

> There is no point to assign an independent copyright to the JAXB
> generated content, because it has been generated from
> http://esp.nongnu.org/esp.xsd.gz, which is already under GPL.


Is that information already stated somewhere in the tarball?.

> I suppose you don't consider the reference to
> http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Open_Source_Ethics in the header of
> org/nongnu/frs/service/opentravel/OTAConnector.java a problem
> either?


Sorry, I haven't noticed it the first time I checked the project.

What does it means, exactly?. It seems like it's asking for not to
disturb proprietary business by forcing the user to "buy" the
software, that would be an inacceptable for a free software package.

Please provide further information.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 09 Oct 2011 10:33:53 AM UTC, comment #2:

There is no point to assign an independent copyright to the JAXB generated content, because it has been generated from http://esp.nongnu.org/esp.xsd.gz, which is already under GPL. I suppose the same files could be generated with the GNU Java toolchain (but I didn't verify that).

I do think the tar file is an established distribution standard. The jar file is merely an internal packaging that could be removed. My idea is to keep the source tree in a jar file and put the documentation directly into the tar file. Thus one could import the jar file as a project into Eclipse, for instance.

I suppose you don't consider the reference to http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Open_Source_Ethics in the header of org/nongnu/frs/service/opentravel/OTAConnector.java a problem either?

It raises, among other things, the question how reliable the code review of open and free software can be expected to be.
I did try to start a project for code review and code signing (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/csca) once but there was apparently no interest in the topic.

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>
Sun 09 Oct 2011 03:16:07 AM UTC, comment #1:

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GNU Savannah task #11408: Submission of Free Reservation System

Hi.

I'm evaluating the project you submitted for approval in GNU Savannah.
You can reach the rest Savannah hackers (Staff) in this list:
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/savannah-hackers-public.

I noticed some issues with the tarball you submited:

The header comment of some files reads

This file was generated by the JavaTM Architecture for XML
Binding(JAXB) Reference Implementation, vJAXB 2.1.3 in JDK 1.6

What's it's copyright status?. Could you please state it in a file in
the same way as the contained images?.

An observation: If you have decided to distribute the project as a Jar
file, wouldn't it be more convenient to distribute it as such rather
than in a gzipped tarball?. That seems to be a hindrance.

Please fix these issues and provide a updated archive. You can either
attach it to the tracker or use an external hosting and provide a
direct download URL.

Regards.

Item status changes:

Assigned to -> marioxcc
Status -> In progress
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Site AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 08 Oct 2011 09:15:36 AM UTC, original submission:

A new project has been registered at Savannah
This project account will remain inactive until a site admin approves or discards the registration.

Registration Administration

While this item will be useful to track the registration process, approving or discarding the registration must be done using the specific Group Administration page, accessible only to site administrators, effectively logged as site administrators (superuser):

Registration Details

  • Name: Free Reservation System
  • System Name: frs
  • Type: non-GNU software & documentation
  • License: GNU General Public License v2 or later

Description:

A free reservation system for hotel reservations. The system will allow to reserve hotels through a booking portal. The booking engine is extensible and allows to implement different types of interfaces, including the OpenTravel Alliance XML protocol, but also to store availability data locally. The system will make use of GCJ and C++ but will only target the GNU/Linux operating system.

(See also: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Internet_entrepreneur)

Tarball URL:

http://savannah.gnu.org/submissions_uploads/FRS.tar.gz

Bernhard Fastenrath <fasten>

 

(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

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    Follow 4 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Tue 19 Nov 2013 09:56:51 PM UTCjllledoStatusIn Progress=>Cancelled
      Open/ClosedOpen=>Closed
    Sun 09 Oct 2011 03:16:07 AM UTCmarioxccStatusNone=>In Progress
      Assigned toNone=>marioxcc

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