taskSavannah Administration - Tasks: task #9148, Submission of Lista de usuarios de...

 
 

task #9148: Submission of Lista de usuarios de LilyPond en español

Submitter:  Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Submitted:  Fri 27 Feb 2009 12:17:26 PM UTC
Votes: 1
 
Should Start On:  Thu 26 Feb 2009 11:00:00 PM UTC Should be Finished on:  Sun 20 Dec 2009 06:00:00 AM UTC
Category:  Project Approval Priority:  * 5 - Normal
Status:  Cancelled Privacy:  Public
Assigned to:  marioxcc Open/Closed:  Closed
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Thu 31 Dec 2009 12:54:43 AM UTC, comment #30: 

P.S. And, as you saw, Yavor forwarded your msg to webmasters to sysadmin, so they will see your report ...

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Thu 31 Dec 2009 12:53:05 AM UTC, comment #29: 

Hi John -- as I wrote before, savannah admins have no power to change anything about the archiving, as far as I know, so becoming a savannah admin would not help.  The FSF sysadmins own this.

As I just replied to Francisco, you could write them (sysadmin@gnu.org).

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Wed 30 Dec 2009 07:51:25 PM UTC, comment #28: 

Hi Francisco -- regarding fixing the mailman translations, you should first download the current mailman distribution from http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/ and check the strings there.  The version on lists.gnu.org is old.

If the translations in the current version still need improvement (not unlikely), then you should discuss it with the mailman developers.  The mailman home page is http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman.


Regarding the archive software, the people who installed and maintain that are sysadmin@gnu.org.  However, last I knew, they did not want to make any changes to the current system, while they work on a new one, so it may not be fixable.

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Mon 28 Dec 2009 11:35:08 PM UTC, comment #27: 

Done, thanks.

BTW some of the strings <MM-Roster-Form-Start>, <MM-Roster-Option>, <MM-Form-End> etc used as macros for the HTML pages contain many mistakes and mistranslations in their Spanish form. Any help on how to correct them would be appreciated.  I offer myself to improve them under my possibilities.

Besides, I note that lilypond-user-fr archives are illegible due to wrongly encoded utf-8 characters.  My list has no messages yet but I assume this will be a problem for us as well. Please do whatever you can to fix this, thank you.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Mon 28 Dec 2009 09:00:26 PM UTC, comment #26: 

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Hash: SHA256

December 28th 2009 in GNU Savannh item 9148: "Submission of Lista de
usuarios de LilyPond en español"

"El programa está disponible para Linux, Windows, MacOs X y FreeBSD, y
viene con una completísima documentación traducida al castellano."

The operating system you refer to is GNU with the Linux kernel
(GNU/Linux).

Please change it to the appropiate (GNU/Linux or GNU+Linux) and see
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux

Regards.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Mon 28 Dec 2009 08:07:26 PM UTC, comment #25: 

lilypond-es-list deleted :)

Sylvain Beucler <Beuc>
Mon 28 Dec 2009 04:46:32 PM UTC, comment #24: 

I can not get into the (now obsolete) project lilypond-es at nongnu. So far, so good; but there I created the list lilypond-es-list which is still around and must be deleted.

http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/admin/lilypond-es-list

Do not confuse this list with lilypond-es! Thank you.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Sun 27 Dec 2009 12:12:39 AM UTC, comment #23: 

The short description I have entered for lilypond-es now shows accented characters correctly on these pages:

  General listing
  http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo

  List page
  http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-es

The first one shows a default encoding of US-ASCII and the second one is Latin-1; both are correctly viewed if the encodings are interchanged, except for UTF-8.

So this seems to  magically work now.  I've still not tested the actual messages (none there yet).

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Fri 25 Dec 2009 11:35:13 PM UTC, comment #22: 

Karl Berry wrote:

>As far as the accented characters go, I don't think any of us >here at savannah have the capability to work on the mailman >installation. And the host isn't running the latest version of >mailman anyway. And the FSF sysadmins are aware of all this. So >I don't see any effective way to pursue the problem. Sorry.


By the way, email-to-HTML conversion of list archives using MHonArc mangles emails encoding, producing difficult to read HTML archives with accented characters.  Latest MHonarc version fixes this problem, but I haven't got a reply of an email I sent two years ago to -email is unavailable- about this issue.

These two issues are so much of a pity for such an important project like GNU that I offer to fix this, or at least provide as much hints and information as I can.  Should I request an inclusion in Savnnah admin group?

Sorry for having popped out like this, but this is fully in-topic: this issue already exists for list lilypond-user-fr, and will exist too for lilypond-es.

Best,
J

John Mandereau <jomand>
Fri 25 Dec 2009 05:42:10 PM UTC, comment #21: 

When I typed 8bit characters directly, they were misinterpreted on the listing as some kind of backslash-octal or similar. I hadn't tried HTML entities but that's what I was going to do following the advice I got from others. I can not test that anymore, for obvious reasons.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Thu 24 Dec 2009 11:32:14 PM UTC, comment #20: 

Hi Francisco -- the ngodb short description uses 8-bit characters instead of HTML entities.  I suppose mailman escapes HTML special characters so that characters like "&" can be used in the text, so entities don't work.

HTH,
k

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Thu 24 Dec 2009 12:43:31 AM UTC, comment #19: 

See the savannah project admin list at https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/lilypond. In addition, the mailing list maintainer is drl@gnu.org.
Any of them can easily create the list.  (We can too, if they prefer, once they confirm.  We just don't want to do it behind their backs.)

I'd forgotten that you said some lists got it right.  I'll take another look tomorrow and get back to you.

Best,
-email is unavailable-

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Thu 24 Dec 2009 12:36:21 AM UTC, comment #18: 


> So I don't see any effective way to pursue the problem. Sorry.


My question was: some lists already do that. How did they do it?

I must say that the new list was already announced onto my existing group and I still don't know who is the responsible person that can create it.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Wed 23 Dec 2009 04:55:15 PM UTC, comment #17: 

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December 23th 2009 in GNU Savannh item 9148: "Submission of Lista de
usuarios de LilyPond en español"

Well, then I close the submission.

Ask the LilyPond mantainer to create the list in their project.

Regards.

Item status changes:

Status -> Cancelled
Open/Closed -> Closed
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Sun 20 Dec 2009 11:12:17 PM UTC, comment #16: 

As far as the accented characters go, I don't think any of us here at savannah have the capability to work on the mailman installation.  And the host isn't running the latest version of mailman anyway.  And the FSF sysadmins are aware of all this. So I don't see any effective way to pursue the problem.  Sorry.

Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Sun 20 Dec 2009 11:06:14 PM UTC, comment #15: 


> If this project is only about creating 1 mailing list,
> wouldn't it be more simple to have the lilypond admins create it?


I'm fine with this.  I don't really need all the other facilities that a full-fledged software project has.

Besides, don't forget the accented characters issue.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Sun 20 Dec 2009 05:37:53 AM UTC, comment #14: 

If this project is only about creating 1 mailing list, wouldn't it be more simple to have the lilypond admins create it?

Sylvain Beucler <Beuc>
Sat 19 Dec 2009 10:53:55 PM UTC, comment #13: 

I certainly don't see a problem with letting the list be named lilypond-es.  We already allow that for GNU projects, and it's not like lilypond-es is unrelated to GNU :).  (I'm not sure why it's not allowed for nongnu.org projects.)

If lilypond-es-list is unused to date, it would probably be simpler to delete it and an admin can create it manually.

I think I can import the archives once the list is created, but it seems I'm no longer able to manually create a list and attach it to a project, so Sylvain or someone else will need to do that first.

Best,
-email is unavailable-





Karl Berry <karl>
Site Administrator
Sat 19 Dec 2009 07:34:32 AM UTC, comment #12: 

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December 19th 2009 in GNU Savannh item 9148: "Submission of Lista de
usuarios de LilyPond en español"

The automated mail is only relevant because it says you the proyect
URL, but you alredy know it so it is not longer relevant at all.

>I'm created the list but I'm not satisfied with its name. If you
>review my initial request, you'll see various reasons why I wanted to
>name the list (which is what the project is, after all) as
>"lilypond-es", but now the project has got this name and the list has
>to be named lilypond-es-something.


>Would it be possible to rename the list from lilypond-es-list to
>lilypond-es?  If I'm not wrong, our French friends have their list
>named as lilypond-users-fr, not lilypond-users-fr-something.


All list should be <PROJECTNAME>-<SOMETHING>, Savane (The softwre wich
this server run) is configured in this manner, I was not considred
this technical obstacle.

The french lilypond list is on the lilypond project, not on a separete
proyect like this list, so it do not break the
<PROJECTNAME>-<SOMETHING> rule.

I will see in the next days if it is possible to make an exeption to
the rule.

Item status changes:

Status -> in progress
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Fri 18 Dec 2009 11:11:46 AM UTC, comment #11: 

Moreover, the listing in

  http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo

contains two lists with accented characters, namely

  http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/durito-mora-esteticas
  http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/ngodb

How are they done it?

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Fri 18 Dec 2009 11:02:35 AM UTC, comment #10: 

The link in

  https://savannah.nongnu.org/mail/?group=lilypond-es

shows the Spanish name of the list and contains a link to

  http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-es-list

but this page shows a wrong character for the "&ntilde;" letter, despite of having set a proper short description in preferences.  This character is important because the word is the Spanish for "Spanish".

If these questions are not to be discussed here, please point me to the right place.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Fri 18 Dec 2009 01:56:59 AM UTC, comment #9: 

I'm created the list but I'm not satisfied with its name. If you review my initial request, you'll see various reasons why I wanted to name the list (which is what the project is, after all) as "lilypond-es", but now the project has got this name and the list has to be named lilypond-es-something.

Would it be possible to rename the list from lilypond-es-list to lilypond-es?  If I'm not wrong, our French friends have their list named as lilypond-users-fr, not lilypond-users-fr-something.

Also, I'd like to import our old archives but I have not command line access.  Is there a straightforward way to do it?

Thank you!

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Fri 18 Dec 2009 12:25:43 AM UTC, comment #8: 

No I haven't received any automated mail containing GNU or Savannah or whatever. A clue on what's supposed to be the sender or the subject would be appreciated. Please resend, thank you.

If I understand well, I have now privileges to create the list for my own. I'll try it tomorrow.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Thu 17 Dec 2009 09:17:10 PM UTC, comment #7: 

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December 17th 2009 in GNU Savannh item 9148: "Submission of Lista de
usuarios de LilyPond en español"

>Of course I think five days is enough, just you'll agree it's little
>time when compared to ten months. Furthermore, I didn't know you
>became an administrator yesterday, so I'm sorry to blame you.


Ok, not problem.

>I have modified our announce in the old list. Of course, I do not
>have any URL to subscribe to the new one, so it's impossible for me
>to publish it as you suggested. If the announce is OK, I'm now
>waiting for the automated email with more instructions.


The project has been alredy approved. You didn't recived the
mail?. Chech your spam box.

You have registred this project to create a maling list, true?. Then
create the list and put the registration page URL in the past Yahoo
list description.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Thu 17 Dec 2009 09:58:58 AM UTC, comment #6: 

I have modified our announce in the old list. Of course, I do not have any URL to subscribe to the new one, so it's impossible for me to publish it as you suggested.  If the announce is OK, I'm now waiting for the automated email with more instructions.

Of course I think five days is enough, just you'll agree it's little time when compared to ten months.  Furthermore, I didn't know you became an administrator yesterday, so I'm sorry to blame you.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Wed 16 Dec 2009 03:08:08 AM UTC, comment #5: 

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>Thank you. Firstly: the announcement on the Yahooo site is done.


>http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/lilypond-es/


>Secondly, the request is done in the devel- list of LilyPond for an
>official announcement on the site stating that the new list is the
>one and only official Spanish users group.


>Please wait for this to be shown on the site.


The project was alredy approved, we will label it as official GNU
software when we recive the offical announce, in the meantime it will
remain as non-GNU software & documentation.

The current announcemente in Yahoo is incorrect: "Now the one and only
official list of LilyPond users in Spanish is hosted as a GNU project
at Savannah.". The list is not the only and official list of LilyPond
yet and therefore is not labeled as offical GNU software here (Not
yet), plese wait the official announcement before claim this. I have
approved project since now to allow you to create the new maling list
and point to it from the Yahoo former list.

A more reasonable announcement would be:

"Estamos migrando esta lista a GNU Savannah y al mismo tiempo,
haciendo los trámites para que sea la única lista oficial de LilyPond
en español, por favor no se subscriba a esta lista sino a la nueva
cuando esté lista. El URL de inscripción es <URL DE INSCRIPCCIÓN>"

Of course, we can delete temporary it if you request it.

>Lastly, I made my request on February 2009, this is ten months ago,
>why sooo much hurry now? Five days everything done or I'm out, isn't
>it a bit excessive? I could have been on vacation.


First, I are in the SV staff for about 1 month, and adminstrator since
yesterday, so please don't blame me for the delay, I'm doing my
best. The registration process is pubic
(https://savannah.gnu.org/task/?group=administration) and transparent,
any is welcome to help (Even if is not staff member), in fact I begin
in that way, later I become administrator.

You confirmed your wish to still host the list here, the tolerance was
2 weeks. Now we require certain interest and responsability from you
in the registration process, we will understand if you need to go away
and let us know, but do it without tell us would be very
hypocritical. If you have a true interest, 5 days is more that
enought.

Anyway if you fail to met our deadlines you
can re-register the project a second time of course expaliing why you
failed the first time and why you will not fail the second.

Regards.
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Wed 16 Dec 2009 12:06:43 AM UTC, comment #4: 

Thank you. Firstly: the announcement on the Yahooo site is done.

http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/lilypond-es/

Secondly, the request is done in the devel- list of LilyPond for an official announcement on the site stating that the new list is the one and only official Spanish users group.

Please wait for this to be shown on the site.

Lastly, I made my request on February 2009, this is ten months ago, why sooo much hurry now? Five days everything done or I'm out, isn't it a bit excessive? I could have been on vacation.

Thanks again.

Francisco Vila <pacovila>
Tue 15 Dec 2009 09:44:55 PM UTC, comment #3: 

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December 15th 2009 in GNU Savannh item 9148: "Submission of Lista de
usuarios de LilyPond en español"

Good,

Hi,

I approve your project.  You will receive an automated e-mail
containing detailed information about the approval.

For be labeled as Official GNU software we need you to point us to an
offical public announcement in the official Lily Pond site that
certifies this as the offical Liky Pond spanish list. Until that
happens it will be labeled as Non GNU software & documentation.

Note that GNU Savannah do not want to be a mere mirror or alternatory
site, so please change the list description in Yahoo to inform the
subscribers of the migration to Savannah. We will check this in 5 days
or better yet at your request, and if has not been done I will remove
the project.

Regards.

Item status changes:

Status -> Wait reply
Should be finished on -> December 20th 2009
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Tue 15 Dec 2009 08:49:36 AM UTC, comment #2: 

Thank you. Yes I am still planning to host it here, if possible.  We have more than sixty subscribers now.  Please keep lilypond-es as our name if feasible.  I'll keep on touch for more instructions.

Anonymous
Tue 15 Dec 2009 03:22:44 AM UTC, comment #1: 

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December 14th 2009 in GNU Savannh item 9148: "Submission of Lista de
usuarios de LilyPond en español"

Apologize the delay. If you are still planning to host your project at
GNU Savannah please confirm it so we continue with the registration
processes. If we do not get the confirmation within 2 week we will
assume than you no longer plain to host the project on Savannah but if
is the case please tell us - we don't bite, and it will make us gain
time.

Regards.

Item status changes:

Assiged to -> marioxcc
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Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc>
Fri 27 Feb 2009 12:17:26 PM UTC, original submission:  

A new project has been registered at Savannah
This project account will remain inactive until a site admin approves or discards the registration.


Registration Administration


While this item will be useful to track the registration process, approving or discarding the registration must be done using the specific Group Administration page, accessible only to site administrators, effectively logged as site administrators (superuser):



Registration Details


  • Name: Lista de usuarios de LilyPond en español
  • System Name:  lilypond-es
  • Type: Official GNU software
  • License: Other (As a mailing list, I don't really know what license to choose. I fully agree with whatever the license is for the other mailing lists.

)




Description:

Lista de usuarios de LilyPond en español --
LilyPond users list in Spanish

GNU LilyPond is a hihg-quality music typesetter wiah a large user base. The Spanish community is growing and an existing mailing list has 51 users. We would like to migrate this list to GNU with all its users.



Other Software Required:

No dependencies as this is an application of hosting a new user list


Other Comments:

The name I ask for is lilypond-es and not lilypond-user-es because:
- there never will be any lilypond-devel-es or lilypond-bug-es lists
- the name has to be short
- the name equals the previous list in yahoo!groups
- the name would otherwise have an English word in it




Tarball URL:

http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/lilypond-es/


Francisco Vila <pacovila>

 

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    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    2009-12-23 marioxcc StatusIn Progress Cancelled
        Open/ClosedOpen Closed
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    2009-12-15 marioxcc Should be Finished on2009-03-08 2009-12-20
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