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revision 1.21 by hemppah, Mon Jan 20 13:21:30 2003 UTC revision 1.22 by hemppah, Mon Jan 20 14:52:17 2003 UTC
# Line 22  There are even prospects of interplaneta Line 22  There are even prospects of interplaneta
22  [cerf:internetplantary_internet]. This sets challenges for the "freedom"  [cerf:internetplantary_internet]. This sets challenges for the "freedom"
23  (referring to 1.) of data movement, as there are limits to the reach and  (referring to 1.) of data movement, as there are limits to the reach and
24  performance of the networks (incl-from:antont->ohs-talk/disconnected?).  performance of the networks (incl-from:antont->ohs-talk/disconnected?).
25  Problems include disconnections (due to e.g. breakages), ..  Problems include disconnections (due to e.g. breakages), ...
 OTOH: server downtimes etc.  
26    
27  Thirdly, the amount of internetworked computers will increase rapidly, as  Thirdly, the amount of internetworked computers will increase rapidly, as
28  new kinds of devices are being connected via different channels to the  new kinds of devices are being connected via different channels to the
# Line 130  a centralized server --> 'used within sa Line 129  a centralized server --> 'used within sa
129  e.g. Nokia Communicator calendar data into/from Lotus Notes calendar --> 'used between different systems'.  e.g. Nokia Communicator calendar data into/from Lotus Notes calendar --> 'used between different systems'.
130    
131    
132  -Worth to mention is that Ray Ozzie is a man behind Lotus Notes and Groove; Lotus Notes  hemppah: worth to mention is that Ray Ozzie is a man behind Lotus Notes and Groove; Lotus Notes
133  is based on client-server model and, Groove is based on p2p model --> possible direction etc. ?  is based on client-server model and, Groove is based on p2p model --> possible direction etc. ?
134    
135    
# Line 154  Ok, let's split that in two: Line 153  Ok, let's split that in two:
153    
154  Thus we have four goals which we must express in the article.  Thus we have four goals which we must express in the article.
155    
156    ...
157    
158    so: if there is a permanent network connection, are there reasons for
159    using this? (i.e. being out of sync in the first place)
160    
161    one argument is that there is no such thing as "permanent connection" (in
162    a way e.g. a hard disk failure can be thought of as a connection breakdown
163    to the data on the drive ?)
164    
165    but of course synchronization might be the way to approach it, just that
166    the irregularity is/may_be caused by the, well, intermittent connectivity?
167    
168    should the goals be derived from the use cases? or perhaps better looked in
169    their light ("niiden valossa") -- take the case of e-mail attachments:
170    
171    Think of a use case here: email attachments. Between two computers that
172    are permanently on the 'net, you *could* replace email attachments by
173    "simply" setting up a shared file system between the sender and the
174    receiver of the attachment. Then, if the receiver made a modification,
175    the sender could even see it immediately. Yet nobody seems to be
176    proposing this. The overhead is one thing. Why
177    set up and maintain a shared file system for every file you send to
178    somebody? Privacy is another. You don't want the sender being able to
179    keep track what the receiver does with the document.
180    
181    ... but don't some senders want to be able to track what the receivers do?
182    (and thinking of the web: how do you get a "weblog" of a p2p published data?)
183    
184    And if you don't set up such a file system, but just send an email
185    attachment, you've got intermittent synchronization between two
186    permanently connected computers.
187    
188    Another question is, should e-mail attachments be used to share data.
189    
190    It may be natural when you want one specific person  (or small group of people) to look at a document.
191    ...
192    > rsync is an intermittent synchronization solution :-) (it's not about
193    > shared file systems, but synchronizing two copies of a file system  
194    > intermittently).
195    
196    from:erno
197    "firewalls" should be in end systems. ipsec was originally meant to
198    be run in transport mode and provide end to end security, to
199    work nicely with the ip philosophy.
200    | >  > i prefer URI:s.
201    | i.e. with today's technology, i prefer to put documents on the web or some
202    | (other) filesystem within the recipients' reach.
203    aren't these two orthogonal? in one case you get a copy of the
204    document, in another case you get a (weak) reference to the document.
205    i like the "disconnected operation" and loose caching semantics.
206    another thing about filesystems, it's not a very precise concept...
207    there are several components/aspects.
208    (replace "is" with "can be" according to taste:)
209     * it's a namespace
210     * it's a wire protocol for conducting operations on an object
211     * it's an access control system
212     * it's a way for people to collaborate
213     * it's a locking protocol
214     * it's a tracking facility (access_log)
215      ....
216    > but i still want to have the option of really making sure
217    > i have a local copy of a document sitting on my disk, instead
218    > of in a local cache that will be flushed before long.
219    sure. and i want to have an option, that if any of the four-five machines
220    at the studio suffer data loss, work would not be lost, but there's
221    backups (also for situations when a machine is off-line etc.), within the
222    limited resources of course.
223    >   -- erno
224    ~Toni
225    > what will people do when they have 3200GB disks and realise
226    > they only have useful date to fill 10% of that but would
227    > like more reliability?
228    OTOH: already in the "grey economy" shares of increasing size are required
229    to participate in the network, i.e. you get the movies you want if you
230    provide lots of what other's need. and if you don't have any, you're out.
231    but this is something gzz want's to avoid, too.
232    
233    
234    
235  References:  References:
236    
# Line 180  References: Line 257  References:
257  - Freenet, Free Haven et al  - Freenet, Free Haven et al
258  - The pointer problem: CFS, OceanStore  - The pointer problem: CFS, OceanStore
259  - A commercial p2p-based collaboration tool: Groove (http://erwin.dstc.edu.au/Herring/GrooveAnalysis-SCI2001.pdf)  - A commercial p2p-based collaboration tool: Groove (http://erwin.dstc.edu.au/Herring/GrooveAnalysis-SCI2001.pdf)
260  - Potential hypermedia implementation with non-breaking links: Microcosm  - Hypermedia implementations with non-breaking links: Microcosm, Hyper-G
261  - Squirrel: a decentralized peer-to-peer we cache  - Open Hypermedia, data and link servers? (links not in documents!)
262            * term in the hypermedia engineering -book: link management
263    - (but not structural computing. hypertext functionality? not really.)
264    - Persistent storage: the first 13years (dig bookmark from tolp42:galeon)
265    - primitive sync stuff: rsync (ssync?), SyncML?
266    - about ibm corporate p2p over http:
267     http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/bayardo/userv/
268     http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/bayardo/userv/userv.html
269    
270    is this relevant:  P. Druschel and A. Rowstron. PAST: A largescale,
271    persistent peer-to-peer storage utility. In IEEE, editor, Eighth IEEE
272    Workshop on Hot Topics in Operating Systems (HotOS-VIII). May 20-23, 2001,
273    Schloss Elmau, Germany, pages 75-80, 1109 Spring Street, Suite 300, Silver
274    Spring, MD 20910, USA, 2001. IEEE Computer Society Press. ?
275    
276    - Squirrel: a decentralized peer-to-peer web cache
277  - Feasibility of a Serverless Distributed File System Deployed on an Existing Set of Desktop PCs  - Feasibility of a Serverless Distributed File System Deployed on an Existing Set of Desktop PCs
278  - Distributed File Systems: Concepts and Example ('de facto article on DFS')  - Distributed File Systems: Concepts and Example ('de facto article on DFS')
279  - Lotus Notes: ftp://ftp.lotus.com/pub/lotusweb/product/notes/G325-2061-00_j.pdf  - Lotus Notes: ftp://ftp.lotus.com/pub/lotusweb/product/notes/G325-2061-00_j.pdf
# Line 194  References: Line 286  References:
286    
287  Comments on references:  Comments on references:
288  - Yes, PAST is relevant. It's very similar to CFS (and Oceanstore)  - Yes, PAST is relevant. It's very similar to CFS (and Oceanstore)
   

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