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[cerf:internetplantary_internet]. This sets challenges for the "freedom" |
[cerf:internetplantary_internet]. This sets challenges for the "freedom" |
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(referring to 1.) of data movement, as there are limits to the reach and |
(referring to 1.) of data movement, as there are limits to the reach and |
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performance of the networks (incl-from:antont->ohs-talk/disconnected?). |
performance of the networks (incl-from:antont->ohs-talk/disconnected?). |
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Problems include disconnections (due to e.g. breakages), .. |
Problems include disconnections (due to e.g. breakages), ... |
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OTOH: server downtimes etc. |
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Thirdly, the amount of internetworked computers will increase rapidly, as |
Thirdly, the amount of internetworked computers will increase rapidly, as |
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new kinds of devices are being connected via different channels to the |
new kinds of devices are being connected via different channels to the |
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e.g. Nokia Communicator calendar data into/from Lotus Notes calendar --> 'used between different systems'. |
e.g. Nokia Communicator calendar data into/from Lotus Notes calendar --> 'used between different systems'. |
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-Worth to mention is that Ray Ozzie is a man behind Lotus Notes and Groove; Lotus Notes |
hemppah: worth to mention is that Ray Ozzie is a man behind Lotus Notes and Groove; Lotus Notes |
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is based on client-server model and, Groove is based on p2p model --> possible direction etc. ? |
is based on client-server model and, Groove is based on p2p model --> possible direction etc. ? |
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Thus we have four goals which we must express in the article. |
Thus we have four goals which we must express in the article. |
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... |
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so: if there is a permanent network connection, are there reasons for |
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using this? (i.e. being out of sync in the first place) |
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one argument is that there is no such thing as "permanent connection" (in |
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a way e.g. a hard disk failure can be thought of as a connection breakdown |
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to the data on the drive ?) |
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but of course synchronization might be the way to approach it, just that |
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the irregularity is/may_be caused by the, well, intermittent connectivity? |
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should the goals be derived from the use cases? or perhaps better looked in |
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their light ("niiden valossa") -- take the case of e-mail attachments: |
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Think of a use case here: email attachments. Between two computers that |
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are permanently on the 'net, you *could* replace email attachments by |
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"simply" setting up a shared file system between the sender and the |
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receiver of the attachment. Then, if the receiver made a modification, |
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the sender could even see it immediately. Yet nobody seems to be |
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proposing this. The overhead is one thing. Why |
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set up and maintain a shared file system for every file you send to |
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somebody? Privacy is another. You don't want the sender being able to |
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keep track what the receiver does with the document. |
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... but don't some senders want to be able to track what the receivers do? |
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(and thinking of the web: how do you get a "weblog" of a p2p published data?) |
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And if you don't set up such a file system, but just send an email |
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attachment, you've got intermittent synchronization between two |
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permanently connected computers. |
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Another question is, should e-mail attachments be used to share data. |
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It may be natural when you want one specific person (or small group of people) to look at a document. |
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... |
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> rsync is an intermittent synchronization solution :-) (it's not about |
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> shared file systems, but synchronizing two copies of a file system |
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> intermittently). |
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from:erno |
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"firewalls" should be in end systems. ipsec was originally meant to |
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be run in transport mode and provide end to end security, to |
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work nicely with the ip philosophy. |
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| > > i prefer URI:s. |
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| i.e. with today's technology, i prefer to put documents on the web or some |
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| (other) filesystem within the recipients' reach. |
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aren't these two orthogonal? in one case you get a copy of the |
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document, in another case you get a (weak) reference to the document. |
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i like the "disconnected operation" and loose caching semantics. |
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another thing about filesystems, it's not a very precise concept... |
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there are several components/aspects. |
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(replace "is" with "can be" according to taste:) |
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* it's a namespace |
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* it's a wire protocol for conducting operations on an object |
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* it's an access control system |
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* it's a way for people to collaborate |
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* it's a locking protocol |
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* it's a tracking facility (access_log) |
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.... |
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> but i still want to have the option of really making sure |
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> i have a local copy of a document sitting on my disk, instead |
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> of in a local cache that will be flushed before long. |
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sure. and i want to have an option, that if any of the four-five machines |
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at the studio suffer data loss, work would not be lost, but there's |
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backups (also for situations when a machine is off-line etc.), within the |
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limited resources of course. |
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> -- erno |
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~Toni |
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> what will people do when they have 3200GB disks and realise |
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> they only have useful date to fill 10% of that but would |
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> like more reliability? |
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OTOH: already in the "grey economy" shares of increasing size are required |
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to participate in the network, i.e. you get the movies you want if you |
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provide lots of what other's need. and if you don't have any, you're out. |
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but this is something gzz want's to avoid, too. |
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References: |
References: |
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- Freenet, Free Haven et al |
- Freenet, Free Haven et al |
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- The pointer problem: CFS, OceanStore |
- The pointer problem: CFS, OceanStore |
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- A commercial p2p-based collaboration tool: Groove (http://erwin.dstc.edu.au/Herring/GrooveAnalysis-SCI2001.pdf) |
- A commercial p2p-based collaboration tool: Groove (http://erwin.dstc.edu.au/Herring/GrooveAnalysis-SCI2001.pdf) |
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- Potential hypermedia implementation with non-breaking links: Microcosm |
- Hypermedia implementations with non-breaking links: Microcosm, Hyper-G |
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- Squirrel: a decentralized peer-to-peer we cache |
- Open Hypermedia, data and link servers? (links not in documents!) |
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* term in the hypermedia engineering -book: link management |
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- (but not structural computing. hypertext functionality? not really.) |
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- Persistent storage: the first 13years (dig bookmark from tolp42:galeon) |
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- primitive sync stuff: rsync (ssync?), SyncML? |
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- about ibm corporate p2p over http: |
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http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/bayardo/userv/ |
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http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/bayardo/userv/userv.html |
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is this relevant: P. Druschel and A. Rowstron. PAST: A largescale, |
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persistent peer-to-peer storage utility. In IEEE, editor, Eighth IEEE |
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Workshop on Hot Topics in Operating Systems (HotOS-VIII). May 20-23, 2001, |
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Schloss Elmau, Germany, pages 75-80, 1109 Spring Street, Suite 300, Silver |
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Spring, MD 20910, USA, 2001. IEEE Computer Society Press. ? |
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- Squirrel: a decentralized peer-to-peer web cache |
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- Feasibility of a Serverless Distributed File System Deployed on an Existing Set of Desktop PCs |
- Feasibility of a Serverless Distributed File System Deployed on an Existing Set of Desktop PCs |
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- Distributed File Systems: Concepts and Example ('de facto article on DFS') |
- Distributed File Systems: Concepts and Example ('de facto article on DFS') |
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- Lotus Notes: ftp://ftp.lotus.com/pub/lotusweb/product/notes/G325-2061-00_j.pdf |
- Lotus Notes: ftp://ftp.lotus.com/pub/lotusweb/product/notes/G325-2061-00_j.pdf |
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Comments on references: |
Comments on references: |
288 |
- Yes, PAST is relevant. It's very similar to CFS (and Oceanstore) |
- Yes, PAST is relevant. It's very similar to CFS (and Oceanstore) |
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