bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #39519, Latin Kerning


bug #39519: Latin Kerning

Submitted by:  Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Submitted on:  Thu 18 Jul 2013 08:48:13 PM UTC  
Category: font metricsSeverity: 3 - Normal
Item Group: letter positioning poorStatus: Fix posted
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: OpenRelease: 2012-05-03

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Mon 21 Sep 2015 03:31:02 PM UTC, comment #18:

I think some combinations as ſꝛ should be closer, because they can appearing in Latin siglum.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 17 Sep 2015 09:20:10 AM UTC, comment #17:

I found ɣ should adjust the kerning, as in Dzayer tamaneɣt (“Algiers” in Berber).

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Tue 15 Sep 2015 10:15:42 AM UTC, comment #16:

Of course we have no way of knowing what this combination should look like, without something like:
1) an image of pre-computer typography depicting it
2) a textual standard that describes its appearance.
(As usual, comparisons with modern computer fonts are immaterial.)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 15 Sep 2015 07:58:59 AM UTC, comment #15:


I found Wikipedia refered Central !Kung have a word stand for “water”, which transcripted [ǃ̬˞ ˡú] in IPA, in this case the alveolar click letter is adding a rhotic diacritic. In FreeSans ǃ˞ looks tightly, but in FreeSerif they looks seperate.


Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Tue 15 Sep 2015 06:46:47 AM UTC, comment #14:


about retroflex click: sorry I don't know what you're talking about. Please provide us some text to work with.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 15 Sep 2015 01:44:28 AM UTC, comment #13:

Hi Steve,

I remembered that I received warning about a conflict between kerning table and GPOS when I opening FreeSerif.sfd with FontForge one day, I think maybe this conflict cause the problem.

I have tested retroflex click transcription in both FreeSans and FreeSerif, they works with FreeSans but not in FreeSerif, so you can just fixing in FreeSerif.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon 14 Sep 2015 06:44:10 PM UTC, comment #12:


the Czech letters had problems: some faces had table entries for them, others not -- and rather mysteriously. Thanks for pointing this out.

I have no idea what you mean about the retroflex click. I will need some text with this character in it.

Thanks again!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 14 Sep 2015 07:11:15 AM UTC, comment #11:

I think ďé, ťé (used to reperent their abeceda) as well as ľ should also adjusted for kerning in Czech and Slovak.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon 14 Sep 2015 03:55:08 AM UTC, comment #10:

Hi Steve,

I think ǃ˞ (Retroflex click) should be kerning tightly in FreeSerif. This is apprearing in the Central !Kung dialects of Namibia and the Damin ritual jargon of Australia.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 14 Aug 2015 05:16:55 AM UTC, comment #9:

I think the kerning in some cases as ſs, ſz, ſʒ should be fixed.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon 25 May 2015 01:26:15 PM UTC, comment #8:

See comment at bug 39474.

This resolves some of the issues mentioned here.

For the others, such as Small M + T, I will need to see an image.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 31 Jul 2013 01:07:49 AM UTC, comment #7:

Maybe because there's a SMALL M immediately after, which almost sticks to T, it creates this impression of mine.

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Wed 31 Jul 2013 01:06:24 AM UTC, comment #6:

Italic SMALL U+SMALL T, isn't the space too big between them?

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Tue 30 Jul 2013 09:06:25 PM UTC, comment #5:

In the word "engine", isn't the G too far from N? I don't think you need an image in this case.

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Fri 19 Jul 2013 10:42:43 PM UTC, comment #4:

No this y thing is the same as the "doubling" problem we discusssed in the other thread. In the kerning editor the pairs look nothing like this.

I really haven't had a chance to diagnose that problem.
Only now, I can't seem to turn it on and off as I did before, by building the .otf file directly. Mystery.

I tightenened up f with round letters.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri 19 Jul 2013 05:47:07 PM UTC, comment #3:

Also check the italic "y+something", it seems still too narrow even on XeLaTeX. Is it a bug of the program, or is it a flaw in the font, or am I just fixated on kerning? :)

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Fri 19 Jul 2013 08:40:58 AM UTC, comment #2:

What about the "offo" pair, isn't the second "o" a bit too far too?

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>
Fri 19 Jul 2013 12:02:40 AM UTC, comment #1:

Yeah, you're right. Fix in SVN.

FWIW, these pairs have been kerned, and re-kerned, many times.
Why they seem OK one day, and need adjustment another day, escapes me. But tall kinds of things can happen...

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 18 Jul 2013 08:48:13 PM UTC, original submission:

In the word "effect" with an "ff" ligature, isn't the second "e" too far away from "ff", as compared to the first "e"? I don't think an image is necessary in this case.

Rosella Capriotti <rosy58>


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  • -unavailable- added by hammerandsickle (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by Stevan_White (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by rosy58 (Submitted the item)

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    Follow 2 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Fri 19 Jul 2013 12:02:40 AM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusNone=>Fix posted
      Assigned toNone=>Stevan_White

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