bugGNU Web Translation Coordination - Bugs: bug #22101, permesso d'autore != copyleft

 
 

bug #22101: permesso d'autore != copyleft

Submitted by:  Yavor Doganov <yavor>
Submitted on:  Thu 24 Jan 2008 06:40:03 AM UTC  
 
Category: Italian [it]Severity: 4 - Important
Item Group: NoneStatus: In Progress
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Andrea Pescetti <pescetti>
Open/Closed: Open

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A long debate on the Italian mailing list showed that most translators
believe "permesso d'autore" is indeed a good translation.

RMS expressed the same concerns back in 2004; we still agree on the
answer we gave at the time, after which RMS accepted our translation.
Please find the answer and a comment by RMS below.
---

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In Italy, the legal expression that references most of the English
"copyright" legal concepts is "diritto d'autore". It is not exactly the
same thing, because they make reference to different legal systems, but
it is very similar, and it is what is commonly used when speaking of
such matters. From a linguistic point of view, just as "copyright" does
not simply mean "right to copy", "diritto d'autore" does not just mean
author's rights (that would be "diritti dell'autore"). Both "copyright"
and "diritto d'autore" are specific legal terms: this is true both in
Italian and in English.
Anonymous
Fri 27 Jun 2008 09:45:06 PM UTC, comment #4:

We will standardize on not translating "copyleft" and demote "permesso d'autore".
We will correct articles too over time.

Andrea Pescetti <pescetti>
Project MemberIn charge of this item.
Tue 11 Mar 2008 09:56:49 AM UTC, comment #3:

A long debate on the Italian mailing list showed that most translators
believe "permesso d'autore" is indeed a good translation.

RMS expressed the same concerns back in 2004; we still agree on the
answer we gave at the time, after which RMS accepted our translation.
Please find the answer and a comment by RMS below.
---
(Francesco Potorti', 2004)

The translation "permesso d'autore" for "copyleft" has been chosen
[years] ago after a long debate between the Italian translators.
Some years after, we think that the choice was a good one.

In Italy, the legal expression that references most of the English
"copyright" legal concepts is "diritto d'autore". It is not exactly the
same thing, because they make reference to different legal systems, but
it is very similar, and it is what is commonly used when speaking of
such matters. From a linguistic point of view, just as "copyright" does
not simply mean "right to copy", "diritto d'autore" does not just mean
author's rights (that would be "diritti dell'autore"). Both "copyright"
and "diritto d'autore" are specific legal terms: this is true both in
Italian and in English.

The term copyleft has some interesting properties, which we wanted to
translate into Italian. As it commonly happens with translations of
plays on words, it was not obvious how to obtain this effect. The
properties we wanted to maintain are:
- copyleft is a simple word
- it has no obvious meaning attached
- it does not sound bad
- it quickly recalls "copyright", suggesting that it is a similar
concept, but in some way opposite to it

We found that "permesso d'autore" has the same properties in Italian,
with reference to "diritto d'autore".

So, to answer your questions more precisely, yes, permesso means
permission, but "permesso d'autore" does not mean "author's permission"
(that would be "permesso dell'autore"), rather it is an invented
expression with no specific meaning until properly explained.
---
(RMS 2004)
I see you've thought about the issue that was my concern,
so I won't continue to disagree.

Andrea Pescetti <pescetti>
Project MemberIn charge of this item.
Wed 06 Feb 2008 07:43:53 PM UTC, comment #2:

A long discussion has been going on on the Italian mailing list.

I will report outcomes here.

Anonymous
Wed 06 Feb 2008 07:32:26 PM UTC, comment #1:

Andrea, we are still missing reply/comment from your side.

Yavor Doganov <yavor>
Project Administrator
Thu 24 Jan 2008 06:40:03 AM UTC, original submission:

RMS wrote:

"People translate "copyleft" in Italian as "permesso d'autore",
but I think that is a misleading term, since ANY license
(whether free or not) conveys permission from the author.

I think we need to change to a different term, perhaps
just writing "copyleft" as in English."

Could you please amend all articles? "Copyleft" is a strong word game, TTBOMK untranslatable in any other language. It is OK to explain the term in a translators' note at important places, although there is an article that does that.

Yavor Doganov <yavor>
Project Administrator

 

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    Follow 4 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Fri 27 Jun 2008 09:45:06 PM UTCpescettiStatusWont Fix=>In Progress
      Open/ClosedClosed=>Open
    Tue 11 Mar 2008 09:56:49 AM UTCpescettiStatusNone=>Wont Fix
      Open/ClosedOpen=>Closed

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