bugUnifont - Bugs: bug #51807, Problems with Tai Tham

 
 

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bug #51807: Problems with Tai Tham

Submitter:  David Corbett <dscorbett>
Submitted:  Sun 20 Aug 2017 10:57:54 PM UTC
   
 
Category:  None Severity:  3 - Normal
Item Group:  None Status:  Fixed
Privacy:  Public Assigned to:  unifoundry
Open/Closed:  Closed

Jump to the original submission

Tue 23 Jul 2019 02:37:53 PM UTC, comment #8: 

Yes, I noticed that you removed the stray pixels when I diffed the glyphs. I don’t know how that slipped through. I’m glad someone is checking my work!

For the record, HarfBuzz zeroes mark widths by GDEF class for most scripts, not by Unicode general category, so I would not have expected any problem in HarfBuzz. Maybe other shaping engines have this problem.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Tue 23 Jul 2019 03:09:50 AM UTC, comment #7: 

David,

I'll use these in the next version of Unifont. Thank you for the final adjustments. I had also removed some stray pixels in some of the combining marks.

A constraint we have to work with is that font rendering engines that know a glyph is combining can ignore any attempt in the font to override that. We saw that with harfbuzz. One of many unfortunate compromises with Unifont.


Paul Hardy

Paul Hardy <unifoundry>
Group administrator
Mon 22 Jul 2019 06:57:57 PM UTC, comment #6: 

If the spacing marks U+1A61, U+1A63, and U+1A64 are implemented as non-spacing, their glyphs from my original comment won’t work, so I’ve redrawn them. To make room, I moved most glyphs to the left one pixel, and redrew the pre-base marks to be narrower. While I was at it, I shifted the above-base tone marks and below-base medial consonants to the left and the below-base vowel signs to the right, to make overlaps less likely. I also removed a stray line from U+1A50.

Here is what I propose:

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David Corbett <dscorbett>
Sun 21 Jul 2019 10:40:13 PM UTC, comment #5: 

David,

This is what I propose adding.  All glyphs are 16 pixels wide, and all combining glyphs will have an offset of -16.


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Paul Hardy

Paul Hardy <unifoundry>
Group administrator
Mon 30 Jul 2018 11:40:24 AM UTC, comment #4: 

David,

Thinking about this further, please consider whether the original glyphs are okay.  This goes for Tai Tham, Limbu, and Buginese.  If anything, these three scripts might require a few glyphs being redrawn but if a glyph is not of the wrong shape, it will save you time and effort to leave the original glyphs as they are.  I did not know in advance that you were thinking of redrawing these and have been thinking about how to incorporate them, but the end result is too complicated without being redone again.  I don't want you to spend time working on these if the original Unifont glyphs are okay given the constraints of Unifont and its static combining character offsets.  My earlier note might have inadvertently implied that you do just that.

Thank you,


Paul Hardy

Paul Hardy <unifoundry>
Group administrator
Mon 30 Jul 2018 05:30:57 AM UTC, comment #3: 

David,

Actually, before doing anything with these it would be best to consider whether the original Tai Tham, Limbu, and Buginese glyphs are good enough given combining character constraints.  It might not be worth working on these three scripts unless there is truly a bug involved with them.

Thank you,


Paul Hardy

Paul Hardy <unifoundry>
Group administrator
Mon 30 Jul 2018 04:18:44 AM UTC, comment #2: 

David,

I think this is too complicated for someone else to follow, trying to keep in mind which combining glyphs have which widths.  It will be a lot easier for someone else to follow if all glyphs in the script have the same width: 16 pixels.  I also have decided not to remove combining glyph code points from combining.dat files, if nothing else because there are font rendering engines that hard code combining glyph information.

Can you resubmit this in a way that the whole script uses 16-column-wide glyphs and all combining glyphs have the same offset of -16?

This same comment applies to bug 51834 (Limbu) and 51835 (Buginese).  I especially would not want to use a combining character glyph width like -14 or -19; it would result in too complicated an encoding.

Thank you,


Paul Hardy

Paul Hardy <unifoundry>
Group administrator
Wed 20 Sep 2017 01:00:48 AM UTC, comment #1: 

Erratum: U+1A61, U+1A63, and U+1A64 should be removed from plane00-combining.txt. I had written that they should be removed from that file yet have x-offsets in that file, which are mutually exclusive.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Sun 20 Aug 2017 10:57:54 PM UTC, original submission:  

Minor problems

Some base glyphs, ignoring ascenders and descenders, do not lie between rows 6 and 12, e.g. U+1A2E and U+1A45.

The glyphs generally are correct on their own but inconsistent with each other. For example, U+1A23 and U+1A37 are circles opened at the bottom and top respectively; they should be horizontally symmetrical, but the latter glyph is taller.

U+1A3E TAI THAM LETTER MA is a closed circle. It should be open at the top.

U+1A69 TAI THAM VOWEL SIGN U has an stray pixel above.

U+1A7F TAI THAM COMBINING CRYPTOGRAMMIC DOT is meant to be used multiple times on the same base. The number of dots determines the cryptogrammic reading. Obviously, Unifont overlays them all on each other. I suggest making it a spacing glyph of a low dot: it is wrong but it is less wrong.

Major problem

As in Myanmar, Tai Tham puts vowel signs and other diacritics all around base consonants. One of the pre-base vowels, U+1A6F TAI THAM VOWEL SIGN AE, is so wide there is no way to fit all the marks within two cells: U+1A6F is two circles wide, many consonants are two circles wide, and the post-base vowel signs are one circle wide. That leaves three or four columns per circle, which is too little.

The solution is similar to that for Myanmar: to give the post-base marks 1-cell-wide spacing glyphs and reserve the left 5 columns of each consonant for pre-base vowel signs. (A reason to not do this would be if above-base marks could follow post-base marks, in which case the above-base marks would no longer be above the consonant. It turns out this can happen: U+1A74 TAI THAM SIGN MAI KANG can follow U+1A63 TAI THAM VOWEL SIGN AA; luckily, the Khün style of Tai Tham puts the mai kang above the aa so this solution does not create an unattested configuration.)

Tai Tham allows multiple vowel signs in the same position relative to the same base. I tried to make combinations mentioned in http://wrdingham.co.uk/lanna/renderer_test.htm look good, but since pretty much any permutation of marks is valid, I didn’t test everything.

My suggested glyphs generally use fewer pixels than their current counterparts. This is because more pixels mean more overlaps. I tried to use the simplest attested glyphs without extra filigrees, rings, and kinks.

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1A55:-16
1A56:-16
1A57:-16
1A58:-8
1A59:-16
1A5A:-8
1A5B:-16
1A5C:-16
1A5D:-16
1A5E:-16
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1A68:-16
1A69:-8
1A6A:-8
1A6B:-16
1A6C:-16
1A6D:-8
1A6E:-16
1A6F:-16

Remove from plane00-combining.txt:

1A61
1A63
1A64
1A7F

The only special cases needed in unibmp2hex:

1A55
1A6E
1A6F
1A70
1A71
1A72

David Corbett <dscorbett>

 

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Carbon-Copy List
  • -email is unavailable- added by unifoundry (Posted a comment)
  • -email is unavailable- added by dscorbett (Submitted the item)
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    There are 0 votes so far. Votes easily highlight which items people would like to see resolved in priority, independently of the priority of the item set by tracker managers.

     

    Follow 4 latest changes.

    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    2022-03-06 unifoundry StatusIn Progress Fixed
    2019-08-11 unifoundry Open/ClosedOpen Closed
    2019-07-23 unifoundry StatusNone In Progress
        Assigned toNone unifoundry

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