bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #49315, U+0710 SYRIAC LETTER ALAPH

 
 

bug #49315: U+0710 SYRIAC LETTER ALAPH

Submitter:  David Corbett <dscorbett>
Submitted:  Tue 11 Oct 2016 07:17:23 PM UTC
   
 
Category:  individual character(s) Severity:  3 - Normal
Item Group:  glyph(s) incorrect Status:  Fix posted
Privacy:  Public Assigned to:  Stevan_White
Open/Closed:  Open Release:  * development
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Mon 17 Oct 2016 08:36:23 PM UTC, comment #8: 

I also note that the descender is tiny. I can’t read Syriac so I might be wrong about this one, but I think maybe it should be bigger.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Mon 17 Oct 2016 08:29:10 PM UTC, comment #7: 

I see the source of confusion: Microsoft contradicts itself about med2. According to the page you linked to, “The 'med2' feature is used to replace the 'Alaph' glyph in the middle of Syriac words when the preceding base character can be joined to”, but according to https://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/features_ko.htm#med2 it “Replaces Alaph glyphs in the middle of Syriac words when the preceding base character cannot be joined to”. So you can’t trust the OpenType documentation.

Unicode 9.0’s table 9-16, which defines how alaph looks in various positions, shows that the X_r glyph has no descender. X_r means the right-joining form of a letter; for alaph specifically, it means the right-joining form of alaph when not at the end of the word.

The string ⟨ܒܐܒ⟩ (beth alaph beth) should therefore use the X_r form of alaph (i.e. right-joining with no descender), but in revision 3270 of FreeSans it uses the A_fj form (i.e. right-joining with a descender).

http://behdad.org/syriac/ is a useful reference. It shows the correspondence between table 9-16 and OpenType features. It also gives further information, if you’re interested, about the inconsistencies in OpenType’s med2 documentation.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Mon 17 Oct 2016 06:10:01 PM UTC, comment #6: 

Hi David,

I wish it were as clear to me as it is to you.  Could you please provide a reference?

In the table "Medial Forms #2" on
https://www.microsoft.com/typography/OpenTypeDev/syriac/intro.htm#features
I see what appears to be a descender on the 'med2' forms for East Syriac (and Serto). 

Am I misreading it?  Is it wrong?  Did I misunderstand you?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Mon 17 Oct 2016 01:31:34 PM UTC, comment #5: 

Revision 3270 changed Substitution2: "'med2' medial forms 2 in Syriac-1" syr_alef.fin3 to Substitution2: "'med2' medial forms 2 in Syriac-1" syr_alef.fin2. That is wrong. The fin2 form has a descender which the med2 form should not have.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Sat 15 Oct 2016 06:49:13 PM UTC, comment #4: 

I discussed the issue with the creator of the original font, and decided to make the aleph more like Madnhaya letters.
In SVN

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Wed 12 Oct 2016 09:01:05 PM UTC, comment #3: 

I've made the further Syriac positional forms for alaph in the last commit.

As to the shape of the glyph, I double-checked the original: CarloAtor, a non-Unicode font.  I was surprised to find alaph had several positional forms -- although most of the other letters did not.

I still haven't figured out what to do about the basic shape.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Tue 11 Oct 2016 10:34:47 PM UTC, comment #2: 

Just learned about med2 fin2 and fin3.  Strange, again.
And now I find Table 9-13 in the Unicode Standard.  OK, more work for next week.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Tue 11 Oct 2016 09:55:33 PM UTC, comment #1: 

Hi,

As far as I know, the Syriac alef, like the Arabic one, only connects on the right.  Should it use other positional forms?  Don't know. 

Any positional forms for this letter appeared in FreeSans this week, you know.

It does look rather like a right parenthesis to me.  The letter forms are basically taken from a primary source, which had its weakness.  It may be that it's wrong.  Or it may be it reflects a style he saw.

It does seem the original contributor was making Madnhaya style letters.  They are quite different from those of those of other Syriac styles.  Please look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_alphabet#Summary_table.

I'm not very interested in other computer fonts.  We work from standards and pre-computer printed references.

But I have looked at some examples of Madnhaya typesetting... and in each, the alef looks somewhat like a parenthesis.
I will look for East Syriac printed books.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Tue 11 Oct 2016 07:17:23 PM UTC, original submission:  

In FreeSans, U+0710 is wrong. alef_syr looks like a parenthesis. It doesn’t use the med2, fin2, or fin3 features. The table at the top of http://behdad.org/syriac/ is a useful reference.

David Corbett <dscorbett>

 

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    Follow 3 latest changes.

    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    2016-10-15 Stevan_White StatusNeed info Fix posted
    2016-10-11 Stevan_White StatusNone Need info
        Assigned toNone Stevan_White

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