bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #49002, Poor positioning of dagesh

 
 

bug #49002: Poor positioning of dagesh

Submitter:  None
Submitted:  Sun 04 Sep 2016 03:04:55 PM UTC
   
 
Category:  individual character(s) Severity:  3 - Normal
Item Group:  letter positioning poor Status:  Fix posted
Privacy:  Public Assigned to:  Stevan_White
Originator Email:  -email is unavailable- Open/Closed:  Open
Release:  * development
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Sat 17 Sep 2016 01:15:49 PM UTC, comment #10: 

Ah. Now I remember better what that thing with the precomposed letters is about.

There are a couple of combinatinos, yod-patah and yod-hiruk, featuring high-placed vowel points, that are used in Yiddish.  Only the yod-patah is marked as Yiddish in the Unicode standard, but I have been assured that in both cases, the Hebrew usage has the vowel placed low.

However, the font software plays a trick: it pre-composes many combinations into ligatures (my recollection is that it has not always been this way.)  But it pre-composes these things regardless of the language of the text.

So Freefont had one table that de-composes these two ligatures, and re-composes them only if the text is marked as Yiddish.  I'm putting that de-composing table back, but only for these two letters.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Wed 14 Sep 2016 03:37:57 PM UTC, comment #9: 

Hi David,

see if current SVN isn't better.

I remember now.  I de-compose pre-composed characters for Yiddish.  Modern font software always pre-composes certain combinations, but it isn't always the right thing to do -- in this case, the Yiddish convention is to place the marks differently than appear in the pre-composed versions.

And I guess at the same time I decided to decompose all the Hebrew pre-composed letters -- which also wasn't the best choice.

Thanks!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Mon 12 Sep 2016 06:59:36 PM UTC, comment #8: 

Hi David,

Generally, it is helpful to see examples.  I make up examples of my own, but I'm just guessing.

Yes it could be that in the past, I thought it best to de-composed the pre-composed characters.  I'll look at it tomorrow.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Mon 12 Sep 2016 06:52:39 PM UTC, comment #7: 

Even with the new 'mset' table, the precomposed and decomposed vav-dagesh behave identically in FreeSans, i.e. the dagesh leaks into the next character’s space. For example, the word “וּפִי” looks wrong. The same goes for yod-dagesh. I notice that vavdageshhebrew has:


Ligature2: "'mset' mark position via subst. in Hebrew-1" vavhebrew dageshhebrew
MultipleSubs2: "'ccmp' glyph decomp. in Hebrew subtable" vavhebrew dageshhebrew


Could the MultipleSubs2 be interfering with the Ligature2?

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Sun 11 Sep 2016 01:04:55 AM UTC, comment #6: 

No, a dagesh would not actually appear on yod-yod or vav-vav.

David Corbett <dscorbett>
Sat 10 Sep 2016 07:59:27 PM UTC, comment #5: 

I added an 'mset' table meant to replace yod-dagesh and vav-dagesh with precomposed versons.

Tell me, does the dagesh really appear on yod-yod and vav-vav in text?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Wed 07 Sep 2016 10:07:29 PM UTC, comment #4: 

Added mark positioning for the wide letters.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Tue 06 Sep 2016 08:12:57 PM UTC, comment #3: 

It’s much better but not perfect.

In FreeSans, the dot on the thin letters (vav, zayin, yod, final nun, vav-vav, vav-yod, and yod-yod) should add some advance width: it is too close to the following letter.

In FreeSans and FreeMono, the dot on the wide presentation forms is still not placed correctly.

Anonymous
Mon 05 Sep 2016 05:21:37 PM UTC, comment #2: 

Fix for all faces in SVN.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Sun 04 Sep 2016 06:56:46 PM UTC, comment #1: 

See if FreeSerif isn't improved in the latest SVN.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Group administrator
Sun 04 Sep 2016 03:04:55 PM UTC, original submission:  

All three fonts have problems with the Hebrew point dagesh.

In FreeSans, some glyphs are missing a vowel_left_heb anchor:

  • yodhebrew
  • finalnunhebrew
  • tsadifinal
  • vavvavhebrew
  • vavyodhebrew
  • yodyodhebrew
  • yodyodpatahhebrew
  • uniFB21..uniFB28


In FreeSerif:

  • alefhebrew
  • finalnunhebr
  • finaltsadihebrew
  • vavyodhebrew
  • yodyodhebrew
  • uniFB21
  • uniFB22


In FreeMono, there is no vowel_left_heb anchor, so the dagesh looks wrong on nearly every letter, or at least different from the precomposed glyphs in Alphabetic Presentation Forms.

Anonymous

 

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    Follow 7 latest changes.

    Date Changed by Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced by
    2016-09-14 Stevan_White StatusProceeding Fix posted
    2016-09-12 Stevan_White StatusFix posted Proceeding
    2016-09-10 Stevan_White StatusProceeding Fix posted
    2016-09-07 Stevan_White StatusFix posted Proceeding
    2016-09-05 Stevan_White StatusProceeding Fix posted
    2016-09-04 Stevan_White StatusNone Proceeding
        Assigned toNone Stevan_White

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