bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #44561, IPA: Several diacritics positioned...

 
 

bug #44561: IPA: Several diacritics positioned incorect

Submitted by:  Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Submitted on:  Tue 17 Mar 2015 04:15:56 PM UTC  
 
Category: character rangeSeverity: 3 - Normal
Item Group: letter positioning poorStatus: Fix posted
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: OpenRelease: development

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Tue 19 Jan 2016 10:55:02 AM UTC, comment #21:

Hi Steve,

I have found Wikipedia uses a module page to generating IPA letters, many of them were accented, I think you can make optimizations for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:IPA_symbol/data

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 30 Oct 2015 01:09:53 AM UTC, comment #20:

OK, I copied those letters, they performanced better.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 29 Oct 2015 07:32:57 PM UTC, comment #19:

Hi Hsing-yen,

This is a coding problem on the web page. Try
s̬ t̬ tʰ dʰ ɔ̹ ɔ̜ u̟ e̠ ë e̽ n̩ e̯ ɚ a˞
As near as I can tell, this line is the only one affected.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 29 Oct 2015 01:35:23 PM UTC, comment #18:

Hi Steve,

In this page
http://www.gnu.org/software/freefont/ranges/IPA.html
some letters with “suprasegmental” marks placed incorrect, especially in first column

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 29 Oct 2015 12:16:53 PM UTC, comment #17:

Which characters, specifically?
What test page?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 29 Oct 2015 05:45:29 AM UTC, comment #16:

I found some “suprasegmental” marks in your range sample page don’t combined.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 23 Oct 2015 08:12:50 PM UTC, comment #15:

OK

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 19 Oct 2015 01:13:35 PM UTC, comment #14:

Hi Steve,

I found combining diacritics should align with the stem of ʔ and ʕ, cf. ʡ̮. Addtionaly, θ̞ seems miscombininged in FreeSans.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Mon 14 Sep 2015 07:38:46 AM UTC, comment #13:

Hi Hsing-yen,

I do agree some of these are coding issues -- and if Unicode standardizes it, well sure. This is a Unicode-based project.

But we just need evidence of a typographical precedent. (And again, that does not mean an existing computer font.)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 14 Sep 2015 04:05:26 AM UTC, comment #12:

I think ᶑ̥ (Voiceless retroflex implosive) should also have an anchor. BTW I have submited a colsulation to Unicode constrium for replacing on j̊ several days ago, but I don’t received reply until today.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 10 Sep 2015 08:07:57 AM UTC, comment #11:

Hi Hsing-yen,

Why should the dot be replaced on j̊? We need to see a standard statement of this, or a (pre-computer) typographic sample.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 10 Sep 2015 06:20:18 AM UTC, comment #10:

I think ɾ̼, ɾ̥ should be adjusted in FreeSerif. cf. r̼, r̥.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 10 Sep 2015 06:06:01 AM UTC, comment #9:

Hi,

I found another sequences placed incorrect again:

j̊ Voiceless palatal approximant (In this case the dot should be replaced)
ɥ̊ Voiceless labialized palatal approximant

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 12 Jun 2015 12:26:00 PM UTC, comment #8:

well, ɰ̊, ɻ̊ also looks incorrect.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 12 Jun 2015 12:17:27 PM UTC, comment #7:

Hi, I found two diacritics aligned incorect for several additional IPA letters from there:

n̼ — Linguolabial nasal, only in FreeSans
ɸ̺ — Voiceless linguolabial fricative
l̼, ɺ̼ — Lingolabial variant of /l/, /ɺ/, only in FreeSans Regular

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 12 Apr 2015 05:45:18 PM UTC, comment #6:

Hi,

I copied IPA letters to test, both FreeSerif and FreeSans performances well in Firefox, then I copied them to BabelPad, almost all of them looks well.

(For these sequences, I found a web-based editor on the Internet to test more style)

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 12 Apr 2015 09:06:47 AM UTC, comment #5:

Hi,

I just made a build that resolves some of these issues.

Note that some of the letters you listed are from relatively new ranges in the standard, which are at this time supported only in Serif.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 01 Apr 2015 06:39:16 PM UTC, comment #4:

Hi,

I really must have an image of printed material using these combinations.

The diacritics stacked beneath a letter are bad enough. Then you want a "tie" beneath that?

My best guess as to how you expect this to work... is not easily achievable in OpenType. I almost said "not achievable", but "not worth achievement" might be better.

But I am only guessing. Again, we are not interested in how other fonts handle this. We need to know what typesetting gave rise to these characters in Unicode. This stuff must have existed in print before.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 01 Apr 2015 07:06:05 AM UTC, comment #3:

Well, I found ʎ̝̥ is used for the voiceless palatal lateral affricate [c͡ʎ̝̥]/[c͜] (occurs in Hadza) and palatal lateral ejective affricate [c͡ʎ̝̥ʼ]/[c͜ʼ] (occurs in Dahalo). I think some of materials about these languages may will be helpful.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 20 Mar 2015 03:18:52 PM UTC, comment #2:

Oh~well, I am sorry to found printed materials to show how multiple accents should be positioned firstly. Seconedly, I opened this article again, click so many cliks at IPA charts to investigate, found more problems for rhem:

ɡ̈ — murmured ɡ
ɡ̊ — voiceless ɡ
ȵ — Alveolo-palatal nasal, missing in FreeSans
θ̠, θ͇ — Voiceless alveolar non-sibilant fricative, only in FreeSerif
ð̠ — Voiced alveolar non-sibilant fricative, only in FreeSerif
ʢ̝ — Voiced epiglottal fricative, only in FreeSerif
ʢ̞ — Voiced epiglottal approximant, only in FreeSerif
ꞎ — Voiceless retroflex lateral fricative, missing in FreeSans
ɭ̆, ɺ̢ — Retroflex lateral flap
ᶑ — Voiced retroflex implosive, missing in FreeSans
ʘ̬ — Voiced labial click
ǀ̬ — Voiced dental click
ǀ̃, ʇ̃ — Dental nasal click
ǀ̥̃, ʇ̥̃ — Dental nasal click, voiceless
ʘ̥̃ʰ — Aspirated bilabial nasal click
ᵑ̊ǀʱ — Aspirated dental nasal click
ᵑ̈ǁ — Breathy-voiced lateral nasal click
ǂ̬ — Voiced palatal click
ǂ̃ — Palatal nasal click
ǃ̬, ʗ̬ — Voiced alveolar click
ǃ̃ — Alveolar nasal click
ǃ̥̃ʰ, ʗ̃̊ʰ — Aspirated alveolar nasal click
ǁ̬, ʖ̬ — Voiced alveolar lateral click
ǁ̃, ʖ̃ — Alveolar nasal lateral click
ɘ̝ — Near-close central unrounded vowel, only in FreeSans
ʊ̈, ʉ̞ — Near-close central rounded vowel, only in FreeSans
ø̞, œ̝ — Mid front rounded vowel
ɤ̞ — Mid back unrounded vowel, only in FreeSans
ɔ — Open-mid back rounded vowel, only in FreeSans, similar to bug #44482
æ̞ — Near-open front unrounded vowel, advanced, only in FreeSerif
ɶ̈, ɶ̠ — variants of the Open central rounded vowel

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 19 Mar 2015 07:47:34 AM UTC, comment #1:

Hi Hsing-yen,

Thank you for making a separate issue for this. I was going to suggest it.

To be correct: the diacritics simply are not positioned with respect to the letter in these cases. We only specify positionings for combinations that somehow make sense, and until we know they are needed, the positioning isn't defined.

I have already worked on these. I'm having trouble with the stacked diacritics however-- the ones with one diacritic on another. These are a typographic problem: the second diacritic can be out of the line holding the letter, and is usually "clipped". I wonder if they should really be stacked vertically.

Do you have access to any printed materials that show how multiple accents should be positioned?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 17 Mar 2015 04:15:56 PM UTC, original submission:

Hi Steve,

I copied all IPA letters from Wikipedia article International Phonetic Alphabet, then I found several some diacritics looks incorect for them. They are:

ɳ̊ — Voiceless alveolar nasal, except FreeSans
ɲ̊ — Voiceless palatal nasal, except FreeSans
ɹ̠̊˔ — Voiceless postalveolar non-sibilant fricative, only in FreeSans
ⱱ̟ — Bilabial flap
ɾ̥ — Voiceless alveolar flap
ɢ̆ — Uvular flap, except FreeSans
ʎ̝̊, ʎ̝̥ — Voiceless palatal lateral fricative
ɭ̊ — Voiceless retroflex lateral approximant
ʘ̃ — Bilabial cliks with tilde
ʄ̊ — Voiceless palatal implosive
d̚ — Voiced alveolar stop (with No audible release), this may will touch right square bracket
ɤ̞ — Mid back unrounded vowel, only in FreeSans
ɯ̽ — Near-close near-back unrounded vowel

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>

 

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    Follow 4 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Sun 12 Apr 2015 09:06:47 AM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusProceeding=>Fix posted
    Wed 01 Apr 2015 06:39:16 PM UTCStevan_WhiteCategoryoverall font problem=>character range
    Thu 19 Mar 2015 07:47:47 AM UTCStevan_WhiteAssigned toNone=>Stevan_White
    Thu 19 Mar 2015 07:47:34 AM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusNone=>Proceeding

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