bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #43288, vertical line not positioned over...

 
 

bug #43288: vertical line not positioned over combining dot above

Submitted by:  Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Submitted on:  Wed 24 Sep 2014 04:03:41 AM UTC  
 
Category: font metricsSeverity: 3 - Normal
Item Group: glyph(s) incorrectStatus: Fix posted
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: OpenRelease: 2012-05-03

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Sat 08 Aug 2015 11:16:38 PM UTC, comment #21:

Hi,

yes, I finally found that, and now I see your effect.

This could be a bug in the software, but it could be they just interpret the tables slightly differently... but, why would Serif Italic behave differently from Serif Bold Italic? I do not see any difference in the font tables that would explain this.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 08 Aug 2015 08:13:58 PM UTC, comment #20:

Hi Steve,

There is a big change in the new version of BabelPad, you must choose Fonts --> List All Style of Fonts if you want to set text into italic.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sat 08 Aug 2015 07:20:47 PM UTC, comment #19:

Hi Hisng-yen,

OK I installed BabelPad on a virtual machine with Windows XP.

Strangely, I don't see how to set text in it to italic. I do not see FreeSerif (italic) listed in its font list, as is displayed in your image. Yet FreeSerif Italic is definitely installed on the system.

This is very interesting software though. I wish we had an free software tool like it.

In particular, it has an option, in English "Simple Rendering" or "Complex Rendering". In "Simple", all OpenType features are turned off. Are you sure you didn't accidentally set it for simple rendering when you made that image?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 08 Aug 2015 06:37:52 PM UTC, comment #18:

Hi Hsing-yen,

now I am bewildered. I looked at each of your images.
I see the vertical line placed neatly over vowels both in normal and italic face.

You said I had not implemented something in italic. What exactly do you think I didn't implement? What do you see wrong here?

In your image of Babelpad, I see no font features being applied. But I don't know: does it apply those features in FreeSerif normal face? I know little about this product. Do you have evidence that it applies OpenType features at all?

Cheers!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 08 Aug 2015 05:12:22 PM UTC, comment #17:

Hi Steve,

I have checked the font file in the system, there is no duplicate file. I'm using the most recent build of the FreeFont, which was got from Launchpad.

(file #34604, file #34605, file #34606, file #34607)

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sat 08 Aug 2015 07:35:09 AM UTC, comment #16:

Hi Hsing-yen,

Either the different applications are seeing different versions of the font, or they are implementing the replacement and positioning tables differently. The effect in your picture could be produced either way.

Reboot the computer, remove FreeFont from the system. Double check with

dir C:\Windows\Fonts\Free*

Make sure you have the most recent build of the font, then install it.

If the effect persists, please make a screenshot of the same file, but with the CSS edited to use FreeSerif normal face.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 08 Aug 2015 03:50:04 AM UTC, comment #15:

Hi Steve,

It looks OK to me in Firefox and MS Word, but looks incorrect in BabelPed when I set FreeSerif Italic font.

(file #34594)

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Fri 07 Aug 2015 07:46:20 PM UTC, comment #14:

Hi Hsing-Yen,

It looks OK to me -- see the attached file.
Can you be more specific?

(file #34591, file #34592)

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri 07 Aug 2015 06:26:46 PM UTC, comment #13:

It seems to me that you're failed to impelement it in FreeSerif Italic, tested in BabelPad.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Thu 04 Jun 2015 05:32:50 PM UTC, comment #12:

Hello Anonymous,

I have no idea what your sentence might mean.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 04 Jun 2015 12:56:50 AM UTC, comment #11:

Hi,
I got source code to build, but I found it's not proper in italic and bold italic typefaces.

Anonymous
Tue 14 Apr 2015 12:58:58 PM UTC, comment #10:

Well, this issue is still appearing in italic and bold italic typefaces.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 08 Feb 2015 03:37:38 AM UTC, comment #9:

I found Chinese (Min Nan) Wikipedia, Main Page and Wikipedia:Siā-lí mn̂g-chhùi-kháu have some small typographic remark, but no i with tone 8 within it. Chinese (Hakka) Wikipedia and Puxian Min Wikipedia test wiki have small typographic remark on the Main Page, and have the same letter.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sat 07 Feb 2015 12:34:15 PM UTC, comment #8:

I have implemented a rule that removes the dot from the i when it is followed by this accent mark. So far only in the Serif and Sans roman faces. In SVN. I also built a snapshot which you can look at.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 07 Feb 2015 11:10:19 AM UTC, comment #7:

Very good example. I see:

in subtitle, a vertical line appears over e
goe̍h

line 6 1st word has vertical line over u
tau̍h

line 11 word has vertical line over a and i
pa̍t-mi̍h
and indeed, the mark replaces the dot over the i, and it is distinct from an i with accent.

line 12 1st word has vertical line over e
pe̍h

line 23 it appears over the o
tio̍h

Does the Wikipedia article on POJ need a small typographic remark on the i with tone 8?

I wonder: is there any other use of this vertical line, in which it does not replace the dot over the i?

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri 06 Feb 2015 01:17:50 PM UTC, comment #6:

Hi,

I remember I found a photo took from a page of Tâi-oân-hú-siâⁿ Kàu-hōe-pò, in this page the letter i̍ appearing from several places, such as "pa̍t-mi̍h", "pa̍t-ji̍t", "í-ki̍p". I think it is suitble for reference.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tai-Oan-Hu-Sia-Kau-Hoe-Po.jpg

By the way, some letters that is used for Pe̍h-ōe-jī should have small capital feature.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 25 Jan 2015 05:40:44 PM UTC, comment #5:

I found tailingua.com have a PDF to make an example

http://tailingua.com/resources/downloads/pojunicode.pdf

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Sun 25 Jan 2015 09:17:33 AM UTC, comment #4:

Hi, Hsing-yen,

We still have no standards document, that shows exactly what letters are in this POJ, and how they should look.

If you know of any such standard, please let us know!

We do not copy the behavior of other fonts.

Thanks!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Fri 26 Sep 2014 10:13:27 PM UTC, comment #3:

Hi,

We really need to know what the standards say about this. We need a document. Is there a standards document for POJ?

The reason vertical line needs to be positioned over a dot in FreeFont is that we never saw it stated in any standard that it should be. (Instead, the combining marks are positioned mostly over letters of several alphabets.)

The behavior of other fonts is interesting, but not convincing.

Thanks!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu 25 Sep 2014 04:26:17 AM UTC, comment #2:

Sorry for my mistake. I mean in Windows 8+ FreeSerif display i̍ as ı̇̍ (vertical line positioned over the dot), but Linux Libertine and SIL fonts do not have this bug.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>
Wed 24 Sep 2014 05:20:51 PM UTC, comment #1:

Hi,

I see that the vertical line isn't positioned over the dot.
There is no rule for that in the font.

Could you please provide documentation on what letters are used in POJ?

I looked at the Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%CC%8Dh-%C5%8De-j%C4%AB
but I found no evidence of the dotless i, u+0131, being used in that page. But maybe it isn't very complete.

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed 24 Sep 2014 04:03:41 AM UTC, original submission:

I found POJ letter i̍ (0069 030D) have an error in FreeSerif when I compared with Linux Libertine, SIL fonts. This letter display as "dotless i + vertical line above"(ı̇̍) in Linux Libertine, SIL fonts. But in FreeSerif this letter is "i + dot + vertical line". Please fix it.

Hsing-yen He <hammerandsickle>

 

(Note: upload size limit is set to 16384 kB, after insertion of the required escape characters.)

Attach File(s):
   
   
Comment:
   

Attached Files
file #34605:  POJ-normal.png added by hammerandsickle (214KiB - image/png)
file #34591:  POJ-italic.png added by Stevan_White (62KiB - image/png)
file #32905:  Sample - i with vertical line.odt added by hammerandsickle (9KiB - application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)

 

Depends on the following items: None found

Items that depend on this one: None found

 

Carbon-Copy List
  • -unavailable- added by Stevan_White (Updated the item)
  • -unavailable- added by hammerandsickle (Submitted the item)
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    Follow 15 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Sat 08 Aug 2015 05:12:22 PM UTChammerandsickleAttached File-=>Added Screenshot from Command Prompt.png, #34604
      Attached File-=>Added POJ-normal.png, #34605
      Attached File-=>Added POJ-italic-firefox.png, #34606
      Attached File-=>Added POJ-italic-IE.png, #34607
    Sat 08 Aug 2015 03:55:06 AM UTChammerandsickleAttached File-=>Added Test in M$ Word.png, #34595
    Sat 08 Aug 2015 03:50:04 AM UTChammerandsickleAttached File-=>Added Test in BabelPad.png, #34594
    Fri 07 Aug 2015 07:46:20 PM UTCStevan_WhiteAttached File-=>Added POJ-italic.png, #34591
      Attached File-=>Added POJ-vert-line.html, #34592
    Sat 07 Feb 2015 12:34:15 PM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusProceeding=>Fix posted
    Sat 07 Feb 2015 11:10:19 AM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusNeed info=>Proceeding
    Sat 24 Jan 2015 01:17:07 PM UTChammerandsickleAttached File-=>Added Sample - i with vertical line.odt, #32905
    Wed 24 Sep 2014 05:21:24 PM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusConfirmed=>Need info
    Wed 24 Sep 2014 05:20:51 PM UTCStevan_WhiteSummaryPOJ letter\'s bug=>vertical line not positioned over combining dot above
    Wed 24 Sep 2014 05:26:18 AM UTCStevan_WhiteStatusNone=>Confirmed
      Assigned toNone=>Stevan_White

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