bugFree UCS Outline Fonts - Bugs: bug #40532, DevanagarI : Enable anusvAra over...

 
 

bug #40532: DevanagarI : Enable anusvAra over avagraha

Submitted by:  विश्वासो वासुकिजः <vvasuki>
Submitted on:  Sun 10 Nov 2013 12:18:22 AM UTC  
 
Category: individual character(s)Severity: 1 - Wish
Item Group: letter positioning poorStatus: Need info
Privacy: PublicAssigned to: Steve White <Stevan_White>
Open/Closed: OpenRelease: 2012-05-03

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Sun 10 Nov 2013 07:54:25 PM UTC, comment #6:

Hi Shriramana (et. al.)

Your technical remarks are quite right, as near as I can make out, however, it isn't clear to me the question should be dismissed.

I just tried out this sequence in Firefox (Harfbuzz enabled) on my Linux system. Indeed with FreeSerif a dotted circle appears, but also with Lohit Hindi (2.4.3, dated 2009) a dotted circle appears. What's different?

As you say, the rendering engine is disallowing this sequence. Just to be sure, I added a positioning anchor for the anusvara to the avagraha in my local copy of the font. It did not help. I doubt I can do anything about this from the font side.

Some further thoughts:

Rendering engines should allow sequences permitted by the standards -- it would really be a pity to have them all going off their own ways.

Whether the form "avagraha+anusvara" is proper or not, a previous usage in printing is some evidence that it ought to be considered. That is up to the standards committees to decide, and persons such as yourself to argue -- but perhaps it ought to be discussed. (But as you point out, probably not here.)

Do the current standards prohibit the form? I'm not sure...

Would it be impossible or undesirable for the standards to accommodate the form?

Unless there is some overriding reason to disallow the form,... if it has been used, why not allow it?

Finally, if the standards don't proscribe the form, yes, you ought to take the question up with the rendering engine developers.

Cheers!

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 10 Nov 2013 05:34:20 PM UTC, comment #5:

Often printings contain aberrations. Consistent usage would be desirrable in such cases.

In any case, as I said it is up to the rendering engine to support such sequences. Why do you report it as a bug against a font?

Note that in South Indian scripts where the anusvara is spacing the anusvara would indeed be placed after the avagraha. The solution is to get the rendering engines like HarfBuzz to recognize such sequences. The bug should not be filed against the font.

And FWIW I just tested HB-NG current tip against the Lohit family of fonts and the sequences are rendered without any dotted circles.

So this is still a NOTABUG.

Shriramana Sharma <jamadagni>
Sun 10 Nov 2013 05:10:48 PM UTC, comment #4:

On second thoughts, I did a google search and came up with this example of prior use:
http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MDScan/index.php?sfx=jpg

Source : Macdonell Sanskrit Dictionary

Does this justify enabling anusvAra over avagraha?

(file #29586)

विश्वासो वासुकिजः <vvasuki>
Sun 10 Nov 2013 04:01:09 PM UTC, comment #3:

No conflict - I defer to ShriramaNa's expert opinion.

This bug may be closed.

विश्वासो वासुकिजः <vvasuki>
Sun 10 Nov 2013 11:19:11 AM UTC, comment #2:

Hi, विश्वासो वासुकिजः

There seems to be a conflict here.

Could you provide an image, showing this placement of the mark?
(And also describe the origin of the image).

Steve White <Stevan_White>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 10 Nov 2013 05:13:23 AM UTC, comment #1:

Please close this bug as NOTABUG because:

1) there is no attestation for anusvara to be used with avagraha.

2) in fact, in printings, anusvaras are placed above the preceding syllable.

3) in any case, it is up to the text shaping engine to place a mark on top of a base and the font has nothing to do with it aside from providing attachment points, which in this case is not really required.

Shriramana Sharma <jamadagni>
Sun 10 Nov 2013 12:18:22 AM UTC, original submission:

Example of why this is needed :

युक्तेभ्यः अंशेभ्यः -> युक्तेभ्योऽंशेभ्यः
[ रुत्व -> उत्व-> गुण-> पूर्वरुप-सन्धिः
ससजुषो रुः (8।2।66)-> अतो रोरप्लुतादप्लुते (6।1।113)-> आद् गुणः (6।1।87)-> एङः पदान्तादति (6।1।109) ]

विश्वासो वासुकिजः <vvasuki>

 

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Attached Files
file #29586:  p010c3-b30.gif added by vvasuki (3kB - image/gif)

 

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Carbon-Copy List
  • -unavailable- added by Stevan_White (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by jamadagni (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by vvasuki (Submitted the item)
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    Follow 9 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Sun 10 Nov 2013 08:04:49 PM UTCStevan_WhiteCarbon-CopyRemoved -unavailable-=>-
    Sun 10 Nov 2013 07:54:25 PM UTCStevan_WhiteSeverity3 - Normal=>1 - Wish
    Sun 10 Nov 2013 05:10:48 PM UTCvvasukiAttached File-=>Added p010c3-b30.gif, #29586
    Sun 10 Nov 2013 11:19:11 AM UTCStevan_WhiteCategoryNone=>individual character(s)
      Item Groupscreen rendering=>letter positioning poor
      StatusNone=>Need info
      Assigned toNone=>Stevan_White
    Sun 10 Nov 2013 12:18:22 AM UTCvvasukiCarbon-Copy-=>Added -unavailable-
      Carbon-Copy-=>Added -unavailable-

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